Pure Faith: A Bible Discussion Podcast

Navigating the Landscape of Young Earth Creationism

August 01, 2023 Mitchell Heitkamp and Michele Waymire Episode 106
Pure Faith: A Bible Discussion Podcast
Navigating the Landscape of Young Earth Creationism
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In this engaging conversation, we voyage beyond the surface of the young earth creationist theory—a topic that has ignited heated debates. Triggered by a debate between Ken Hamm and Bill Nye the Science Guy, my curiosity led me down a rabbit hole of exploration into this theory. By dissecting the three fundamental distinctions between young and old earth creationists we're delving into a wealth of thought-provoking content. We promise an enchanting rollercoaster ride of information, potent viewpoints, and vigorous discussions, no matter where you stand on this spectrum.

Taking a leap further into the subject, we illuminate on the discrepancies between young and old earth creationists, with 'Extinct or Alive' serving as a fascinating case study. The debate takes a thrilling turn when we discuss Mitchell's personal stance and background. As an equilibrist who views the glass as perfectly filled—neither half full nor half empty—I invite everyone to join in this intriguing discourse, regardless of your beliefs. Prepare for a journey through time, beliefs, and understanding as we unravel this contentious debate.

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Speaker 1:

Alright, you guys ready for the roller coaster? Buckle up. That's right, you better buckle up. So, leading up to this, I've been jokingly referring to my topic, which I haven't told anybody what I was talking about today. That's a little page, but she forgot, like within 20 minutes, what I told her. So I don't know if that's good or bad, but I've been jokingly referring to this as an educational awareness public service announcement. So that's right, there is a mouthful. So the announcement part of this is our main point of this topic, main point of what I'm talking about is the young earth creationist theory. Has anybody heard of this? As nobody, nobody. Okay, so this will be fun, she should say it again Young earth creationist theory yeah, so that's what this is, why this is a public service announcement because nobody is aware of this and, honestly, up to four or five months ago, I wasn't aware of it either. I've heard it talked about various places and various podcasts and videos and stuff that I watch, but I never took the time to look into it, and it was actually YouTube that finally led me to the rabbit hole to learn what this was. So, for some reason, I was at home a few months ago and I was watching whatever on TV and YouTube and its infamous algorithm gave me a video to watch between Ken Ham and Belnyd Science Guy. Most people know Belnyd. He is devout atheist. It's very well known Ken Ham. I wasn't exactly sure who he was, but I knew he was a Christian. So I'm like, all right, you know, I'll watch a debate between a Christian and an atheist and see what happens. Well, it turns out Ken Ham is more than just a Christian. He is a young earth creationist and he is actually the founder and leader of the Ark Encounter in Kentucky. Anybody been to the Ark Encounter? I know Dylan and AJ just went, and the reason I know that is because they're the reason I chose this topic, because they went down there to the Ark Encounter and Dylan sent us messages and pictures in our big family group text chat and was like hey, did you know there were dinosaurs on the Ark and all this other stuff and everything we learned in school was wrong. Well, at that point I had already done this study. I had already gone down this rabble. I watched at Ken Ham and Belnyd debate. Well, after watching that, that sent me down this rabble of learning everything I could learn about the young earth creationist theory, about their competitors, the old earth creationist theory and just everything about the Ark Encounter and everything that they believe. So when they sent that message, I obviously couldn't stay silent. So I had to reply with a message of my own, but in text form. It's kind of hard to put across hours and hours and hours worth of study into a single text to try to get your point across. So after I sent that text, it's like maybe this is something I should teach on whenever the next opportunity comes about. And well, here we are, and so that's what I'm going to be teaching on. So that's how I chose the topic. But the whole point of this I'm not going to tear down young earth creationist theory. I'm not going to. I mean, this is nothing negative against them, because it doesn't matter what you believe. If I could tell you about the young earth creationist theory today and you may go home and decide you're a young earth creationist, fine, it doesn't matter. What matters is what you believe. Whether you believe young earth, old earth, it has nothing to do with your salvation, as long as you believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, he died on the cross, rose, ascended into heaven was resurrected. That's what you need for salvation. This is just a difference in interpretation of what the Bible actually says, and so, as we get into this, I picked out three main topics that are like the biggest differences between the young earth creationists and the old earth creationists, and so we'll kind of just do a brief overview of those and I'm hoping, in two weeks I think, when I come back then I would like to dive in deep on at least one of these and I'll talk about it a little bit whenever we get to it. But again, I'm trying to be brief overview, so I'll try not to get too into there. Okay, but before we get into the differences, I want to tell you where I'm at as far as in this debate. So as I'm here talking about it, explaining the two different sides, you're not wondering like am I a young Earth creationist? Am I an old Earth creationist? I just want you to know where I'm at in this debate and in order to explain that, I need to give another little story. So, as I was preparing for this and I was thinking about it and trying to figure out where I was, I, there was one night, paige and I were lying in bed and I kind of made a mention to her that I created a new word and Paige, in all her support and love and care, says what's that? So you know, an optimist will look at a glass half full. A pessimist will look at the same glass and see it as half empty. I look at that glass and see it at its equilibrium, as in that glass is as full as it can possibly be, but at the same point being low enough that it has the least amount of chance of spilling. So it's at its perfect, equal spot where it wants to be, so that it's full as it can be without spilling, with the least amount of chance of spilling. That makes sense. Well, the word that I came up with was that I'm an Equilibrist. That's a good word, right? Yeah? So obviously I'm in bed and I told this to Paige and again, in all her love and support and everything, she says that's nice and wants to bed. So obviously, obviously, I'm not going to get up and actually look up that word at that point, because I'm also trying to fall asleep. So the next day I went to work and I remembered all this and so I look it up. Well, equilibrius is an actual word and it has an actual definition, but it's not the definition that I created. So its actual definition is hold on. So I'm not going on my notes at all here, so it's in here somewhere. Imagine that Easy, okay. So the actual definition of Equilibrist is an acrobath who performs feats of balance, especially a tightrope walker. That's true, I see it. Yeah, let's not. Let's not do that at all. So I am right now formally making a petition that a new definition being added to the dictionary for Equilibrist, because it only has one option and that's the only option it has. So it needs a second option and that option should be an Equilibrist is someone who uses a topic or situation in its most equal and beneficial manner for both sides or parties. There we go. That should be. I'm just going to go ahead and assume that's in all dictionaries now because that's very true. So that's where I'm in. I'm an Equilibrist. So I think that I look at both sides of these theories the Young Earth Creationist Theory, the Old Earth Creationist Theory. I see benefits to one, I see benefits to the other. Some of them are a little off the point or on. Both of them are in certain ways, in certain areas. So I do fall somewhere in the middle. I think there is some benefit or some truth in the Young Earth Creationist Theory and I think there's some truth in the Old Earth Creationist Theory. I think the actual truth is somewhere in the middle and that's where I try to walk and so as we go through this, then you will know that's kind of where I'm at, where my mind's coming from for this. So the actual agenda for this, this whole topic, these three things that I'm going to go across, it's just to make you aware of what the Young Earth Creationists believe. And again, we're just hitting on the three big ones. There's a lot of other differences out there that I highly encourage you to go and do your own research and you will fall into a rabbit hole and you'll be there for a while. So let's get into these three differences. Michelle, how long I look my time. You got 18 minutes. Oh man, I'm flying, you are flying, you're talking very fast, but very. It's very clear we're doing good, okay, so I can talk a little bit slower, I can go a little bit of tandem. Actually, it's hot up here. Yeah, I feel like you're sweaty, it is. That's why I'm needing it forward. You guys are so sweet to each other. You got this Okay. Well, thanks for the support. You're giving me more support than Patreon. It's more mongol, all right. So getting into the differences, the first one that we're going to talk about is the age of the earth, and this is a huge difference in the two different categories here, the two different creationist theories. So the young earth creationists most young earth creationists believe the world, the universe, everything is no more than 6,000 years old. Wrong. So, from the creation of the universe, creation of the earth, creation of Adam and Eve, everything happened about 6,000 years ago. There are some that go as far out as 10,000 years and that's typically where they're at between 6 and 10. There are a slight difference. There's a small, small section that believe it's 12,000 years, but most of the other young earth creationists just kind of write them off as crazy. So most of them believe they are between 6 and 10,000 years. The old earth creationists they follow more along the lines of traditional or modern day scientists. They believe that the universe was created first and that was created roughly around 13.7 billion years ago. So now you can see there's a big difference between 6,000 years and 13.7 billion years, and actually I also saw some numbers closer to 15 billion, but at this point I don't know if that really matters Long time. It's a long time. The creation of the earth was about 4.5 billion years ago. Again, there's a lot more than 6,000. And then the creation of Adam and Eve is somewhere between 30,000 and 70,000 years ago. So again, there's big differences in numbers between what the old earth and young earth believe and these dates, at least what the old earth creationists believe. These dates they do change because with the increase of technology and everything that we have in today's society, those numbers actually get pushed back further and further and they're always changing. And so the old earth creationists kind of follow along that same general belief, whatever the modern day scientists believe. So there is a huge difference in that. But a lot of that stems from Genesis 1. And this is where I would really like to spend an entire my next sermon. I guess you're going to follow it. I don't really view these as sermons, but the next time I'm up here I would like to do a deep dive into Genesis 1 and show you guys how Genesis 1 is set up but also view it and the difference between the young earth creationists beliefs and the way they look at it and the old earth and the way they view it, and just look at these differences. And this will make a little more sense as I start talking about this, because the young earth creationists believe that, if we recall, genesis got took six days to create the earth and everything in it and on seventh day he rested. Well, the young earth creationists believe those were six literal 24 hour period days, just like our normal days today. So 24 hours one day and one day he did all these other things and in six days total he created everything that ever was in the world and then on seventh day he rested. And the argument for this is that Genesis is a book of history. It is not a book of poetry, parable, prophetic vision or mythology. And again, there's so much I could say on this, but we're going to skip over that and go to the old earth creationist theory. So the old earth creationists yes, they acknowledge the fact that it was six days, but they recognize the definition of a day. In our modern day society is a 24 hour period, but when we talk about day in a physical sense, it's so much more than a 24 hour period. So a day in the Bible may represent an era, a span of human history, a memorable event or a significant period of time, and then it also has a metaphorical meaning that puts more emphasis on what happens during that day than that actual chronological period of time, 24 hours. So it's more about okay, all this happened, that was a day. All this happened, that was a day. Not necessarily that Well, all this happened. Well, that was a 12 hour time, but there was a bunch of different. No, they're just saying this whole section that all has the same general thing happening in it was a day, and that is a biblical way of viewing a day and that is what the old earth creationists believe. So if we go into what Genesis 1 actually says, then in just the way it's set up, on this point, I am leaning more towards the older creationist than the younger, because of the way Genesis set up, and this is what something that I really want to to look at, which, if you listen to all the podcasts, I think I've talked about this like a long, long, long time ago, but probably nobody remembers. But this is something that I would like to talk about next time. So the third one is creation itself, and young earth creationists believe that all instances of creation are special creation, which means that there has to be direct divine intervention which suspends the law of nature to achieve a given result. Does that make sense? Does that make sense? Does everybody understand weird science talk? Yeah, perfect. If that doesn't make sense, then what they're trying to say is that God cannot work through natural means and laws. So the only way God can create is to direct divine intervention. But then they take it a step further and say that was only possible in those first six days. So they're saying that now, after those first six days of creation that went on, god isn't creating anything else. Everything that was created was created in those first six days and now it's just working itself out Well. With the old creationist theory, they also believe that God created everything in those first six days. They're in the same belief system there, but the old earth creationists believe that God still has the power to create and change through natural means and laws. What do I mean by natural means and laws? It could be anything from a natural disaster or some sort of invasive species coming into another area and completely changing the habitat, forcing animals to change and adapt. But the old earth creationists say goes a step further, because this does kind of sound a little bit like evolution. But it's different from evolution because evolution is that we all came from a single cell organism that came out of the water and over millions of years we all became all these different species and types. And with this it's different from evolution because they believe God is the one that is doing it, so nothing can change or happen without God saying or making that change and happen. So if there's a natural disaster or an invasive species, god is the one behind that in order to create a domino effect in order to change a certain species that will then evolve into something different. But it evolves because God gives them what they need to evolve. They're not just evolving because natural selection or whatever it is, it's because that's what God wants. So it is all working within the will of God. And that is how. Because if you actually look at our world, they find new species Never before discovered species almost daily. And then we also have species when extinct almost daily. So there's a constant and the rough number they threw out there is 10%. So we're constantly gaining 10% new species and losing 10% of species, so we always have the same amount. But there's a constant rotation. And this actually reminds me of a show that I watched. It was called Extinct or Alive and I found it. I don't know if they're doing this or some of the other stuff, but there's a show called Extinct or Alive. I can't remember the name of the guy off the top of my head. His name was Forrest Forrest Galante, yep, yes, and he is a biologist. He is not a Christian, but his job, especially what he does in this show and what he does for his full-time job, is he tries to go in and find animals that have been recently said or extinct. Then he goes in and he finds these animals, but then he's also going in and finding other animals that have never been known before and he's finding they're not small. A lot of the new species that people find are insects or small little things. No, he's finding like alligators, crocodiles, like one with some sort of goat type thing I don't even know what class it would fall under that is deep in some wilderness or somewhere, I don't know. He goes into these super crazy places and spends like weeks out and he's not, I mean, smart, but not the most smart person? I don't think. But he is constantly finding these new species or these species that have been extinct, and this is what I'm talking about. This is what God is doing. So you're telling me that there is this 500, 600 pound goat, deer type animal living out in wilderness somewhere. We've been here for how many years? And nobody knew this thing existed. I mean, that is God protecting that animal until finally God's like okay, that's time for this animal to be revealed. And so he sends in four scaldata to go find this animal. And now everybody knows about it. But and then force does go a step further, because once he finds these animals, he works with local governments to set up protection and everything else, and he does everything the correct way so that this animals, these animals that he finds, are protected and can thrive in their environment. But that is how God works. I mean, just like I said, there are animals out there that we don't even know exist yet, and animals will change and adapt, because that's what God wants to do and that's what the older is creationist believe, where the young are like nope, that's, that's not. I don't know what they actually believe, because it's. They said everything was created at the beginning. After day six, everything was created that will ever be created and it's just here and we just have to find it. I guess, I don't know, but so that's all I want to happen now. So I'm out of time. No, you have five minutes. I just get my hand up like that. Well, I ran through that. I did skip some of it throughout the beginning, but that's fine. What's your sister? I know she's, she's mean, she's, she's caring for all of that. Well, that came from your mom. Yeah, I don't get a whole lot of love, that's okay. So are you guys interested in me talking more about this next time? Because I would like, I would like to go into and there's actually a whole another section. It's called the younger dry us, younger dry us effect theory. That that goes. That is awesome. You should, everybody should, look into that if you're in the history and stuff like that. And just a brief overview the young or the younger dry us effect relief is that about 12,900 years ago we were hit with a Well. At that point we're in full ice age. All of northern, pretty much most of the northern hemisphere, discovered a nice mile, at least a mile thick, sunspots, one half of the two miles thick, there's like the 60 million cubic miles of ice. Well, and in a short period of time we were hit with multiple asteroids and it wiped out all the large mammals that lived On. The US saw the mammoths, all the. I don't know if you guys have ever done any research into the Megafauna that lived on the world years ago but all these big creatures that lived on the earth we're wiped out at that point and there was a lot of huge changes happening because of what happened there and that is a very interesting Road to travel down. So that's very interesting rabbit hole and all these groups are all claiming to be Christians. God fear the young arthritis that is. That does not have anything to do with Christianity, but I think it does fit into the Christian review. They don't talk about it in a Christian way. They are strictly like modern day scientists that and there's a huge debate in the scientific world Like this happened, this didn't happen. This happened, this didn't happen. So there's huge debate there. But if you think about it, 12,000 people died in the war. But if you think about it, 12,900 years ago, well, the young earth creationists believe that at the oldest point, possibly 12,000 years ago is when the Earth was created. It was likely 10,000. Well, that's right at the tail end of the Younger Dryas, and at the Younger Dryas that created, if not a global flood, huge flooding throughout the world, and that was part of the reason for a lot of the death and everything else. So it is possible, in my belief, that where the Young Earth creation is picked up is right at the end of the Younger Dryas, after there was a huge, huge catastrophe on this planet. So that's where I think there is some old Earth beliefs in there, because I do think the Earth is older than 6,000 years but with this Younger Dryas being factored in it, kind of there was a restart at around that 12 to 10,000 year mark where civilizations pretty much had to start over, and I think that's where the Young Earth, they just believe that we've only been here for this new period that we are currently living in. So, like I said, this is a very interesting rabbit hole. How are they proving their theorists? Which ones, all of these Young Earth creationists, younger Dryas and older how are they proving their their belief systems? Yeah, it varies as far as the Young Earth and older. A lot of them are going with traditional dating methods. I don't remember all of them off the top of my head, but I just draw a blank. But all of the carbon dating yes, the carbon dating, and there's like several other similar to carbon dating, using different types of elements within bones and stuff like that. They're basically dating the half lives of these elements within the bones. They're using those types of methods to dates stuff. How can there be that big of a discrepancy? Yeah, if they're using the same kind of it's all interpretation. That is what it all comes down to If you study carbon dating. Carbon dating changes all the time and actually carbon dating is only good up to like 30,000 years, I think, and after that your half life gets so small you can't even. I don't know if the 30,000 is the exact time period, but it's not millions of years ago. But they're trying to use carbon dating for it. It's. Yes, I see you, it's their fault. They're asking questions. It's not my fault. That's why they think it's a big deal about it. Go ahead. So, yes, carbon dating is not. I mean, it's accurate up to a certain period of time. Then after that it kind of loses its effect and then other types of dating come into play and that is another big argument between the two different at least young earth and old earth is how reliable some of these dating methods are. Young earth will attack it, saying, yeah, these are so unreliable and they take in samples from something of known age to difference laboratories to get them tested and they're coming back with this huge range of dates. But they know it's like no, this was from this point in time when, within the last 100 years, and you're saying it's 10,000 years old. So that's where young earth is making their argument. But the old earth is saying, well, yeah, there is a big range, but there's a 10% something or other. I don't remember what that was. But whatever the range in is, as long as it's within 10% of that. So whenever you start talking millions or billions of years, that is a big window. 10% of billions is a lot. So that's kind of how the old earth kind of play it and so again, a lot of it is just interpretation. I'm also gonna get a lot of that Chocolate. Probably You'll see that. A lot of that pick and choosing. Oh, I wanna believe this. But I don't wanna believe this because it doesn't fit with what I really. Yeah, there's a lot of that in there too, a lot of politics, and so I'll show in between the atheists and a scientist, or whatever it was, one. Well, I don't know if there is a winner. They both have good arguments. Again, it left me with more questions and they can feel like they're both incompetent. Sorry, sorry, bill and I and Ken Ham, but yeah, it seemed like the arguments that they choose were so dumb it's like, come on, people used to have an sense, but it is what it is. All right, show us Joe and not me. I didn't know that either. I didn't know it was my biggest. Yeah, he's a strong atheist, he's a claimant. He says it himself, but not people's theory that he is. No, yeah, and that's what he was on all the debates. He's going on to these debates as an atheist debating against different people. All right, show you're up, m אוw. Au revoir, you.

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Debate Between Two Competing Arguments