Pure Faith: A Bible Discussion Podcast

Exploring the Connection Between Light, Salt, and Christian Evangelism (Matthew 5:11-16...Part 6)

October 24, 2023 Mitchell Heitkamp and Michele Waymire Episode 117
Pure Faith: A Bible Discussion Podcast
Exploring the Connection Between Light, Salt, and Christian Evangelism (Matthew 5:11-16...Part 6)
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever pondered over the link between light, darkness, and evangelism? What about the fascinating parallels between the moon and Christian discipleship? Join us, Mitchell and Michele, as we navigate these compelling territories in a conversation brimming with humor, personal anecdotes and faith. We kick off with a chat about Mitchell's upcoming church message on the armor of God, coupled with a lively discussion on the boys' high spirits and an intriguing mystery concerning Mitchell's military service. 

Venture with us down memory lane as we relive our single days of late-night forest escapades and beard jokes. Our discourse takes a profound turn as we delve into the intriguing relationship between light and salt in the context of evangelism. We explore how as Christians, we are the 'light of the world', reflecting the love of Jesus to non-believers, much like the moon reflects the sun. We discuss the metaphoric tie between light, salt, and evangelism, illuminating how vital they are to spreading God's word. So come, share in our laughter, our insights, and our journey of faith in this inspiring conversation.

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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pure Faith podcast. I am Michelle, and with me is my co-host and brother, mitchell. Hi, we ask that you like this video, subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification icon so you're notified when new episodes are released. Guess what? What we have an announcement. Announcement, what do you mean? Yeah, we're not. You're not going to be here next week. So next week like not next week, but the week after we're going to get the message from Mitchell from church.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I didn't realize. There was a big announcement.

Speaker 1:

I thought we were going to do an announcement.

Speaker 2:

Oh, okay, we have an announcement. So, yeah, this. Well, from time of recording, this Sunday we will be or I will be giving the message to church Pastors taking the last or end of the year trip Yep, Much deserved. Yep, Yep. So they're taking a little little getaway weekend. So I'm filling in and but by the time you hear this, it would have been this past Sunday.

Speaker 1:

So and it was really super great.

Speaker 2:

Sure, yeah, it is going to be on the armor of God.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So I do plan on releasing that the week after this one releases.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So, and the reason I chose that topic is because I really wanted to do this topic, like as soon as we could don't have the Beatitudes, because I think they do go kind of hand in hand Okay. So it's just kind of it's a little bit of a different direction, but it also incorporates the Beatitudes and it's all about you know, the way we should be living our lives.

Speaker 1:

I'm just going to say that. So it's another way of how we should be living our lives.

Speaker 2:

Yes, okay, so that's that's why I kind of chose that topic. Well, I kind of forgot about it. Page is one that told me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, page, because after last week, our recording last week, kristie was here and she was like do you know what you're going to be your message on? And you're like I have no idea. She's like, just pray about it. So, thank goodness Page was praying about it and Holy.

Speaker 2:

Spirit spoke through Page. Yes, I asked her is like could you tell that the Spirit was speaking through you? She's like, uh, no, she's like, well, he was Good job.

Speaker 1:

She's kind of like me All this just kind of happens, yeah, nonchalant.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, yes, and I guess that is an announcement.

Speaker 1:

It is an announcement, yeah, so next week we won't be here recording, which is good because next week is our first. Like I said, it's different than the timeframe, than what you're watching, these, but we have, um, our football team is doing very well in football, so we have our final um regular season game or off to the post season. So, um, we'll have meals on Thursday evenings for them. I will be busy with that while you are gone doing your. What does the Z call it? Your army thing? What does he call it? He calls it something.

Speaker 2:

I don't, I don't know what he calls it. I think he calls it I think he's just going to the army.

Speaker 1:

I think it's yeah, it's yeah, dad has to go to the army. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, eli doesn't say anything.

Speaker 2:

No, he, I almost kind of want to say amen last night.

Speaker 1:

Really.

Speaker 2:

Like we were using, you know the phonetics and really working on him, and Zeke was was helping me, he was doing it too, and and he it was close, he was very, very close.

Speaker 1:

Was he.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's just like when we were in church last Sunday and we were back doing something I don't even remember what it was but the boys were being rambunctious and, um, I know right, we won't. We won't tell you what happened after church.

Speaker 1:

That was a good story. Yeah, we were back there and Eli said something. I have no idea. We were doing something with our boxes Operation Christmas Child and the boys wanted to take all the boxes home. And you're like, no, and it was something. I don't know if he said um need one, or something, like it was, but he said it and I understood what he actually said, like they were actually words, and I was like, oh, oh, my gosh, he said words.

Speaker 2:

Occasionally.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I can see him saying amen, maybe.

Speaker 2:

It took some trying, but I think he said it.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. It's exciting. I'll talk about Eli not talking and I'm telling you one day he's just going to say a full sentence Like would you people please leave me alone. I can talk, I choose not to. Oh stubborn.

Speaker 2:

All right, you got anything else to talk about? Not really.

Speaker 1:

I really didn't do much of a body pool study last week, I know right, but still, did you get anything back from anybody on your? I mean, it just was released, I guess, but I just I don't know. I have been praying about that too.

Speaker 2:

So here's an interesting piece of information.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

I haven't got any official word from anybody. But this morning I woke up and I checked my emails and I had three separate emails from the VA about me separating from the Army. I'm doing different programs for those who are separating from the Army. I don't know. Legit emails like yeah, they're from the VA. I understand that, but Just offering three different programs.

Speaker 1:

I say I don't know if you didn't catch me, I want they just cut, they just cut it off.

Speaker 2:

Like you know what?

Speaker 1:

he's done.

Speaker 2:

I wonder if they didn't kick me out of the army and they haven't told me yet.

Speaker 1:

Well, maybe they'll tell you on Wednesday when you get there next week. You can just turn around and go home and you're like yes, I get three days off work I.

Speaker 2:

Very interesting though for those who don't Understand how the army works I have 20 years of service in, so I am eligible for each yes and Every so many years after you hit your 20 years, they do what is called a quantitative retention board and you have to submit paperwork and all this other stuff. So basically you have to prove that you are a viable asset to the army, yet Kick you out because now they're paying you a bunch of money that you know they could give to the area space that they force the old guys out that aren't but you useful to.

Speaker 1:

But you're being useful and you Choose to stay in as long as they keep you, because you have young boys too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I mean.

Speaker 2:

Well, honestly, the biggest reason for us staying in was the health insurance, but that reasons out the door, so you should just tell them this week we are.

Speaker 1:

When you go up there, it's like you know what I'm done.

Speaker 2:

I am done I don't know, I Mean I don't mind retiring, I'd be okay.

Speaker 1:

Do you have to do any kind of like, like physical Like? You have to be able to run and I don't have to do my annual physical fitness test.

Speaker 2:

I just have to do height, weight.

Speaker 1:

Well, maybe, they saw that you went to the hospital for your heart and they're like he is a liability. We can't go. Cinnamon email now three of them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know that was. That was interesting. I don't know what it means.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I.

Speaker 2:

Actually tried to go on military one source, I think it's thanks to website. I'm pretty gone See if there was anything on there and it went loaded this morning. So I'm like I don't know what this means. The server could or wasn't responding or something.

Speaker 1:

So I'm like they shut down your bow. They shut down everything like any. If he tries to get on the website, shut it down. Shut it all down now. This is crazy. Yeah, was he raised? You were erased. Oh my gosh, that's so crazy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so again, the Lord is still working in the situation and I'm just Sitting here. I don't know where this is going, but I'm a little bit he shut the internet down for you to yep able to get into it.

Speaker 1:

Just trusted him for the rock. Yeah, just trust in his ways.

Speaker 2:

So, oh, it'll be interesting. Yeah, I don't. And then the Messages last week the pastor gave was all about pruning. Oh yeah how God will prune things out of your life. To help you grow, which I really like how he incorporated the. What did he incorporate? The fruits of the spirit. Oh yeah you prune something, because whenever you prune something, it'll develop a better harvest for the other Harvest would be the fruits of the spirit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'll joy piece, patience, kindness, goodness. Yes, miss, I'm miss, selflessness I'm self-control. So I'm just kind of curious, like I don't the army, so you can. Yeah, I don't know, maybe you can do more of this. More I mean stuff in the church and the army gave me a lot of time, but I Know the last few months like I don't know. It's been weird. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah so maybe it's time for the army to go, and yeah, yeah, maybe you were just gonna give the message more often here in church and you can tag team with the pastor or something. Give him a, give him every quarter he's.

Speaker 2:

He's good doing a Sunday thing.

Speaker 1:

When you got kicked out of the army, not me I am. I am kicking out my, my final kid right and we're gonna kick him out to the, to the college Good for him. Yeah, so we will. I might have some more time to nesters.

Speaker 2:

So excited so you'll be an empty nester, and I still have one. That's not even so he's a year he's a year, but only a year he's a year, in a few months.

Speaker 1:

A couple.

Speaker 2:

All right, we need to Bob study.

Speaker 1:

I know right out of nowhere we're at. I I jokingly said we're still in Matthew.

Speaker 2:

We're gonna be Matthew for a while.

Speaker 1:

I know we are, because we're only in Matthew five. How many? How many chapters are Matthew oh?

Speaker 2:

I don't know, 20, something, 28 28. When he sounds right for that, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're in Matthew five, so and we are Matthew five, but we are. I don't know if I have and I may have a comment that we're gonna start going through this Faster.

Speaker 2:

No, not at all okay, so we're gonna start this.

Speaker 1:

Um sure.

Speaker 2:

So we just finished up Matthew five, 13, and Before we get into Matthew five fourteen, I want to go over some notes.

Speaker 1:

Hmm, which.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I know that last one, so I just have to listen tonight.

Speaker 2:

Um. So before we get into the rest of what we're covering in this section, which is chapters 14 through 16, each of the next three verses that we're going to cover talk about light in different ways. So this whole concept of light, you know this is a biblical theme throughout the Bible. It is a very common theme throughout the Bible and this concept of this theme is actually fairly simple. It's what you think it is. Where the fact is, when you're talking about light, you're talking about, you know, being able to see that clarity. You know there's no shadows, there's no darkness, it's everything is exposed.

Speaker 2:

So, you can see everything and everything's right in front of you, where, with the opposite of that, is darkness. Well, when you talk about darkness, well, when you're in darkness, you could trip, you could stumble, you could fall, you could get lost, it could be scary, like all these negative things. So light is a positive aspect where darkness is a negative aspect and, honestly, we could do an entire episode just on this concept of light and darkness.

Speaker 1:

It would take us three episodes to get through it, but yes, okay.

Speaker 2:

Well, we could probably do an entire podcast, like it's own show dedicated on light and dark metaphors.

Speaker 1:

I'm not giving you any ideas.

Speaker 2:

And puns, a lot of puns, oh yeah. Anyways, so one of the stories that I thought about sharing, which I guess I'm going to share because I just talked about it All right Before Paige, when I was still old and single.

Speaker 1:

When we didn't know if there was any hope for you finding anyone. Ouch, I really had. I knew it was there. I'm just talking about mom and dad.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

They thought you'd be a bachelor for life. Go ahead.

Speaker 2:

Just so much love like I can almost feel the love. Anyways, one of the things I did I really enjoyed doing was I would go out to the woods.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And I maced out in the woods till three o'clock in the morning by myself in the dark, just burning wood and cleaning up. Okay. You know I did this.

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 2:

But this was back when I was a full time failure. Oh, for those that don't know what that is, I used to trim and chew horses for living, so a lot of times my day didn't start till late, late morning, into the afternoon, but then it would. It's almost like a second shift job.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you had a way for people to get home, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I mean there were mornings I had early appointments, but for the most part, generally speaking, it was more like a second shift job. So I'd go out and if I did get up early I might go up to the woods and I'm just cleaning stuff up and clean up old dead branches and I'd always have fires going out in the woods and just cleaning it up. And there would be a lot of nights where I'd stay out there till two, three o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

No, there may have been some consumption of beverages? There is no doubt in my mind, and sometimes I had visitors, sometimes I didn't, but anyways, this whole concept of light and darkness. Well, I may have been out there in the dark, but I wasn't really doing anything nefarious, it was, I just like to go out there and just spend time out there. I mean, look at, the alternative was to go sit with mom and dad.

Speaker 1:

Can't be questioned if you would ever find a woman at every marriage.

Speaker 2:

You're really stuck on it. You know I'm married right and I got three kids.

Speaker 1:

I, I do.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'm very thankful for that I know in this situation we are kind of like Christ, because we know what the future is. That's, the future is now. Sorry, so sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1:

Sit in the dark with the fire and all yes and sometimes you hear noises. Yes, I imagine.

Speaker 2:

And I normally had fire going, so I had light, but it was just firelight that only goes out. So far, right. You don't know what's beyond that.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So there'd be times you hear crashing and twigs breaking and you're like what is out here with me? Actually, one particular time I was out there and I had two fires going in two different locations and I was standing at the one and they were dying down. I was waiting for them to die down so I could go up and I hear all this crashing and banging and I'm like there is something out here.

Speaker 1:

It's another grizzly bear.

Speaker 2:

And it's big Another grizzly bear. I don't know if you're trying to stay there.

Speaker 1:

Open this up for me. This is hilarious. Okay, I'm sorry, yeah, okay, so there's a lot of noise going on.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm kind of watching where the noise is and between where I was standing at the fire and the other fire, I see the silhouette of a deer.

Speaker 1:

Do you really?

Speaker 2:

And then it lays down next to the other spotting and beds down for the night. So I'm like, well, I'm glad I'm giving this deer some more.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it gets scary. The whole reason why I bring that up is whenever I would get a leave, I would always that time I had the four-wheeler. And so when you're out there and it's dark and all you have is a campfire light, when you turn that key onto the four-wheeler it is a bright light that lights up a big area, and almost every time before I turn that light on, I ask myself what am I going to see?

Speaker 1:

in front of me.

Speaker 2:

Like what's going to be there? Because I can't see, right, because normally it's pointed away from the fire, so I don't know what's out there. So that's, this whole concept of light and darkness is like there's darkness all around us. Well, jesus is that light. Whenever that light shines, what's it going to see, what's it going to review? And luckily, I've never had any huge surprises at. Sasquatch standing there looking at me.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that'd be crazy.

Speaker 2:

That'd be a little unnerving.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that'd be crazy. And now you don't stay out there until three o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2:

I don't ever go out there anymore.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Remember, I'm married with three kids.

Speaker 1:

The more all the story is get married, stay single. No, yeah, no.

Speaker 2:

I've actually been trying to talk. Well, I got Zeke convinced we were going to do it last week. We're going to take ten, don't know. No, you're not.

Speaker 1:

No, you're not. Yeah, he would be so scared, not if I'm there. It'd be fun, yeah. The thing is that you talk about this and when you first said that you were going to be set out by the fire in the woods until 3 am. Just you and your thoughts and a fire. I'm like could I have a son any more like you?

Speaker 2:

And try Noah.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, noah, I could see Noah oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

He's so much like you. One of your lucky, then oh, the only difference is he's only half the size of you. He's tall. I meant the other way.

Speaker 2:

He's tall.

Speaker 1:

He is tall, yeah, and when he grows a beard out it's nice and full, just like yours.

Speaker 2:

He's got a nice beard. Yeah, he had a nice beard, he had a nice.

Speaker 1:

Now I can have one in the morning. He can't have one in the morning, he's so stupid.

Speaker 2:

All right, we're not getting it. You're not helping me get that far, I know.

Speaker 1:

I'm so sorry. I didn't say that. I didn't say that I'm tired either. What time is it? I have no idea. You can see how tall.

Speaker 2:

We got another ten minutes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, good.

Speaker 2:

The other thing that I want to discuss before we get into verse 14 is the fact that we just got done talking about salt. We talked about that extensively. Well, this concept between salt and light is, for the most part, has the same meaning for us as Christians. But there is one key difference between the two where and it kind of comes with the way we even talk about light and salt so salt has to do more with how did I put it? Salt deals internally, so it adds flavors to or enhances what is already there. So, like whenever we talk about salt, we never say all that salt is good or anything like that If that meal is good, whatever you have put salt in.

Speaker 2:

Or it needed some salt, or it needed some salt or it's got too much salt. But whenever it's just right, you don't talk about the salt. The salt is not mentioned, it is forgotten. Even though you know there's salt in that food, it's not talked about. But if you walk into a room you might say it's dimmed. They need to turn the lights on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yep.

Speaker 2:

Or even now, even though the lights are on, we have a light out of here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we do.

Speaker 2:

So we're focusing on that. But light can be the topic of conversation where salt is kind of forgotten. But going along with the fact that salt is internal, light is external. So light will shine on anybody and everybody. Where result you're putting on certain things, you're just salting. As far as evangelism goes for us as disciples Because again the meaning of both of these four Christians is the same thing that we should be going out and being disciples for Christ, we should be going out sharing the good news of Jesus, and it's just two different ways of doing it. Where salt you're going to certain people and you're giving that salt, you're spreading that salt. I mean you can do more general public, but it's more about the internal type of fact or light.

Speaker 1:

Let it shine.

Speaker 2:

Let it shine. There's no restrictions to light and, like I was talking about, when I turn that light on on the four wheeler out in the middle of the woods at night where it's dark, you are really shining that light. Even though this light is pointed this direction, it's lighting up all around Because that's just the way light works. So light has to be light and your light reflects off things.

Speaker 1:

So, you can share your light with these people, say, but it can reflect off those people to numerous other people that are around too, like the light, it can reflect off many.

Speaker 2:

It's funny you mentioned that, because that's what we want to discuss when we get to verse 14.

Speaker 1:

I had no idea.

Speaker 2:

Oh my goodness. Could you feel the spirit? I?

Speaker 1:

could Just like Paige, I'm sure.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, this is good right there. So let's go into verse 14. Verse 14 reads you are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. So you are the light of the world. But again, this you that Jesus is referring to, this is all Christians everywhere, okay.

Speaker 2:

Now we need to remember the situation in which Jesus is saying this. Jesus again, this is still part of the Sermon on the Mount. So Jesus is there, he's sitting and he is teaching. Those to him are his closest disciples, those who would go on to become the apostles. So they are closest to him and he is speaking directly to them. Most of this Sermon on the Mount is directed towards them, but he's speaking in a manner that goes right beyond. Those disciples who would become the apostles is a huge crowd Right Of disciples.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Now, granted, there may be some mixed in there that aren't disciples. To be a disciple, it would have to be somebody who believed that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus was Christ. So the vast majority of those people, by the strict definition of, or by the strict definition, were disciples. They followed Jesus and they were following him around, learning from him, from his teachings, and that's what he was doing here. He was teaching. Now, granted, he may have been talking to those closest disciples again, who would become the apostles, but he was speaking in a manner that everybody could hear him. So the you that he mentions here was not only those that would become the apostles, but all disciples, all of those that accepted Jesus as Christ. Well, that can be extended to even today. So if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, then you are a disciple of Christ and you are the light of the world.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

But the weird thing about this is the fact that in John 8.12, yes, in John 8.12, Jesus says that he is the light of the world. So if Jesus is the light of the world, how can we be the light of the world?

Speaker 1:

Because his light reflects off us.

Speaker 2:

Very true.

Speaker 1:

It does.

Speaker 2:

And the best metaphor I heard to help highlight this is the moon.

Speaker 1:

Oh.

Speaker 2:

Now, if you don't know this, the moon comes up at night.

Speaker 1:

It okay, and it shines this light.

Speaker 2:

It shines, but it doesn't. The moon does not give off any light.

Speaker 1:

Does it reflect out the sun?

Speaker 2:

The moon is reflecting the light off the sun. So if you look at it through this metaphor and then you have to add a lot of things to it to make it work. But for those of us here on earth who look up and see the moon at night, we would be like those non-believers who are just a part of this world. We would be somebody who hasn't accepted Jesus yet. The moon itself would be like the body of Christ. Okay, all the believers of the world. Well, the light that it is giving off is coming from the sun. Who, in this metaphor, is the sun Right.

Speaker 2:

It's like a different spelling. So yes, so the light of Jesus would reflect off of us who are the body of Christ the believers to all of those who are non-believers of the world.

Speaker 1:

It's very interesting. Yeah, yes, I like that.

Speaker 2:

So I thought that was an awesome metaphor. I do really like that. So that is how Jesus is calling us the light of the world. Not because we have the light, we are not giving off the light, we are reflecting the light of Jesus.

Speaker 2:

And then we need to take that light and take it out into the world, into the public, to the non-believers, and let that light shine on them and bring in that salt metaphor too we're salting these people in order to help preserve them, to help give them the flavoring of Jesus, so that they too will then come to Jesus.

Speaker 1:

Interesting. I like that a lot. I really do.

Speaker 2:

I did. I like that too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I do, I like that.

Speaker 2:

We'll go ahead and stop there. Okay, we will cover the next second half of this. In a couple weeks We'll come back to this and finish it up Fantastic and then spend another four weeks finishing up the rest of this section.

Speaker 1:

I really do hope that you enjoy this, because I enjoy it. I don't know what Mitchell's going to say when he comes in, but I also love to have a conversation with him when we do come here, and we hope that you guys at least get a chuckle out of our stories.

Speaker 2:

Out of you making fun of me. And you making fun of me For things that happened 10 years ago.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, but what I'm saying is we can do that and hopefully we are bringing, we are sharing laughter to you guys as well, because I do, I enjoy it. I think mom enjoys it too, but maybe she'll leave a comment. Okay, so we thank you for joining us. Please leave a comment on this video or go to our contact page, purefaithlivingcom to send us a message. And, as always, if you like what you hear, then we ask that you share this show with others so we can all work together and spread the good news of Jesus Christ. Don't forget to subscribe and we will talk to you again next time.

Speaker 2:

Have a blessed day.

Speaker 1:

Thank you Bye.

Announcement and Army Separation Conversation
Light and Darkness
Christian Disciples