Speaker 1: 0:06

Good morning, welcome. I say good morning. It's morning here, but I don't know what time it is where you're at watching this. But we welcome you to another episode of Pure Faith Podcast Podcast where we discuss all things Bible, but we take it a little differently. So Mitchell is our leader here. Welcome, I am. Yeah, for now.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Well, you should have told me this earlier.

Speaker 1: 0:26

I'm hoping that you have something put together, because I have nothing. But no, we hope that you enjoy this episode. And, uh-oh, you forgot your iPad. That's got all your notes.

Speaker 2: 0:40

No.

Speaker 1: 0:40

You have it on your phone. That's all I got. Let me just tell you, you know, we're glad to be back, we're glad to be doing this again it was placed on Mitchell's heart and to get back into the Bible study and I'm glad. I'm glad to be here. I do miss, I did miss our time together. Don't lie.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Well, I just don't there for a while I just don't.

Speaker 1: 1:02

I there for a while I didn't even know, like, what you guys were doing every day, because we didn't talk every single day. But that's okay, um, but no, I I am interested in this and I think we're going to try a little bit different. We're not going to just go through the whole um, we're not going to do like a whole book of anything.

Speaker 2: 1:20

That's not off the table.

Speaker 1: 1:22

Right, but I I think it going to be more of an open discussion. I'm going to try and give a little bit more to the Bible study.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Mitchell's going to try and give a little more. Maybe I'll lead a couple of these Bible studies.

Speaker 1: 1:30

We'll see Mitchell said that he could be the comic relief. I wasn't too sure about that. Hilarious, hilarious, hilarious. I'm not sure we were going to get started a little bit early this morning. Again, we used to do these in the evenings. This time we're doing it in the morning. So it was an early. It was early alarm clock, even though I sleep wonderfully like I have no issues, except for it stormed last night. So I was up at three, I was up at five, my alarm went off at six.

Speaker 2: 2:10

So you want to know how I slept last night.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Like a rock. No oh on the couch.

Speaker 2: 2:16

I considered getting up and going to the couch.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Oh no.

Speaker 2: 2:20

So Ephraim's been I don't know if you want to say full-fledged sick, but he's been uncomfortable for the last couple days.

Speaker 1: 2:31

Oh.

Speaker 2: 2:32

And so he came down to our bed early last night, so he was sleeping in between Paige and I, and then at some point I have no idea what time I wake up to something hitting me.

Speaker 2: 2:46

And here was Eli on the other side of me and he goes into bed and I have no idea what time it is. Normally if it's too early we send the boys back up, but normally they go to Paige because she's a lighter sleeper. Well, he came to me, I didn't bother looking to see what time it was. So then he lays next to well, he goes between me and Ephraim. Well, then those two like start fighting. So then I take Eli and move Eli to the other side of me, and so I'm sleeping between Eli and Ephraim.

Speaker 1: 3:14

Oh.

Speaker 2: 3:14

But then I'm very limited in my movement, yeah, and so I have Eli like laying on this arm and he's a hot box, and so I'm like sweating. I got no, no blankets on because it's so hot, oh my goodness. And so, needless to say, when my alarm goes off here, I am trying to get up between these two.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Let's just say we can all envision that this is not a smooth process.

Speaker 2: 3:44

No, my right arm is completely asleep because Eli's been sleeping on it, so I can barely move this. It wasn't dead, but it was Tiddly.

Speaker 1: 3:54

I couldn't feel it.

Speaker 2: 3:56

But I had movement, but I couldn't feel it. So it was a dead arm. And then I'm trying to get up and then I start cramping. So now I'm trying to get up and then I start cramping. So now I'm trying to sit up. Between these two I got a dead or not a dead arm, but a completely asleep arm. My alarm's going off. I got cramps. I'm just trying to shut the alarm off so I don't wake everybody up.

Speaker 1: 4:16

This sounds like old age.

Speaker 2: 4:18

It was old age. Wait, so when you left, though, were they still sleeping no, zeke is the only one still in bed or was still in bed. I assume he's still in bed, but I don't know. Yeah, I was already up watching sonic prime oh I I didn't know the show existed yeah and ephraim was hanging on page.

Speaker 1: 4:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:44

Mama's boy.

Speaker 1: 4:45

Yeah, that's that third one. I think it's like the first and third, like the middle one. Not so much because I don't know the poor middle child. I fail for Eli. Sometimes. I've got an Olivia who's the middle child. I hear about it all the time.

Speaker 1: 5:06

I remember those days, though, but see, I could not have our kids in our bed because they turned in their in their sleep so you'd wake up to foot kicking you or something. So I was like so I actually had. I at some point put blankets all the old blankets from like Grandma Conk and you know whoever we accumulated these from. We made this into a bed by one of our walls with a pillow. It was there all the time, also known as only the child of Olivia got up in the middle of the night. She could not come into our bed, but she knew she could lay on the ground right there. So that was, that was our out. I couldn't do it. I could not have them in her bed. I could not sleep with them in her in her bed. Mind you, we even had a king size bed, and I'm like, uh, can't do this.

Speaker 2: 6:07

So they had their own little special places and you know, for when they were sick I wasn't having any kid getting sick in my bed. Um, I can sleep through a lot. So, yeah, I had knees.

Speaker 1: 6:13

So I decided at some point last night I woke up and decided that our boys are mountain goats when they sleep, because they're constantly trying to climb like have legs on me arms and it was coming from both sides if they were in their own bed, they probably wouldn't have moved at all probably not, but yeah, they kept just eli, could eli's, he's a snuggler anyways oh he couldn't get close enough.

Speaker 2: 6:38

Oh, and it's just like okay, god love them.

Speaker 1: 6:43

Yeah, mm-mm-mm. So well. Yeah, so those were storming here throughout the day today. So, yeah, it's going to be a crazy day. We've got lots going on. We've got basketball coming up this morning for Zeke, so it's going to be move, move, move, and then we're having dinner tonight.

Speaker 2: 7:04

Mm-hmm, I'm so excited. I told Matt and Kendra too.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Oh, fantastic. I was wondering who was all going to be there, so fantastic.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yeah, you and.

Speaker 1: 7:12

Are we doing it at your house?

Speaker 2: 7:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:14

Okay, yeah. So anyhow, we're doing a hibashi grill tonight, so Mitchell has invited us over for dinner, so we are excited about that. So we have a busy day today and we're getting started early. We're getting started with this. So what you got?

Speaker 2: 7:29

I'm going to go through. I'm going to read the entire Psalm 22. This will sound familiar to a lot of you, so we'll read it and then I'll go back through and kind of break it down section by section. Psalm 22 is it's interesting in the fact that, well, first of all it's a lament.

Speaker 2: 7:48

So it's a what a lament okay so it's and we'll get into this once we get started okay, it's just somebody just really expressing how they feel, um, in a very torn, distraught, sad, just a guttural type expressing of their feelings. So it's a lament, but it kind of goes a lot of different directions and we'll see that.

Speaker 1: 8:19

And this is something you've been studying, I think, with Matt, haven't you? Well, it's where it started.

Speaker 2: 8:24

It's where it started. We haven't really talked about it much lately Because then we decided to start doing this again and I was like, oh well, I'll just wait and we'll do it on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 8:34

And then Okay, yeah, because I knew that you had said something about it. I know this has been placed on your heart for a reason, so let's start.

Speaker 2: 8:42

Okay, so Psalm 22 to the choir master. So this is the little intro before the actual psalm To the choir master, according to the Doe of the Dawn, a psalm of David. So that's just a little introductory type thing and just so we know, David wrote all the psalms.

Speaker 2: 8:59

Well this. He didn't write all the psalms, but this is a p, a Psalm of David. There's a lot of debate and argument over what that actually means. It doesn't necessarily mean that David wrote this. Okay, it could have been written for David, or by David, or about David by somebody else. So we don't know. David is involved somehow. We don't know exactly how. I think for our discussion we're just going to assume that David wrote it. Okay, even though that may not be necessarily true. Okay, but just for argument's sake, that's what we're going to assume.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Gotcha.

Speaker 2: 9:40

Okay, so verse 1. And I'm reading ESV, by the way, for anybody who is following along my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me from the words of my groaning? Oh, my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but I find no rest. Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel. In you our fathers trusted. They trusted and you delivered them To you. They cried and were rescued. In you, they trusted and were not put to shame.

Speaker 2: 10:16

But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by mankind and despised by the people. All who see me mock me. They make mouths at me, they wag their heads. He trusts in the Lord. Let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him. Yet you are he who took me from the womb. You made me trust you. At my mother's breast, on you was I cast, from my birth, and from my mother's womb you have been my God.

Speaker 2: 10:42

Be not far from me, for trouble is near and there is none to help. Many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me. They open wide their mouths at me like a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax. It is melted within my breast. My strength is dried up like a posture and my tongue sticks to my jaws. You lay me in the dust of death, for dogs encompass me. A company of evildoers encircle me. They have pierced my hands and feet. I can count all my bones. They stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

Speaker 2: 11:26

But you, o Lord, do not be far off. O my help. Come quickly to my aid. Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog. Save me from the mouth of the lion. You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen. I will tell of your name to my brothers In the midst of the congregation.

Speaker 2: 11:46

I will praise you, you who fear the Lord. Praise him, all you offspring of Jacob. Glorify him and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel, for he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted and he has not hidden his face from him but has heard when he cried to him. From you comes my praise in the great congregation. My vows I will perform before those who fear him. The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied. Those who seek him shall praise the Lord. May your hearts live forever. All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord and all the families of the nations shall worship before you, for kingship belongs to the Lord and he rules over the nations. All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship Before him. Shall bow all who go down to the dust, even the one who could not keep himself alive. Posterity shall serve him. It shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation. They shall come and proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn that he has done it. So that was Psalm 22.

Speaker 2: 12:58

But now we'll go back and break this down and going right back to the opening verses verses 1 and 2, it says my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me from the words of my groaning? Oh, my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but I find no rest. So this is just again. We're assuming this is David. This is just David saying. Again, we're assuming this is David. This is just David saying I'm praying to you day and night. I need help. I'm in trouble. I'm praying to you, but you're not answering my prayers.

Speaker 1: 13:34

And I think we all can relate to this. Yes, yeah, I mean I think we all have said that to ourselves many a times and at that point we can be like is this even working? Like should I continue praying? Like why am I doing this if I'm not getting the answers? And then we realize really what this all means.

Speaker 2: 13:55

Yeah, yeah, and that's exactly the position he's in. Yeah, he's just in a position where he's praying for something and he's not getting any answers, where he's praying for something and he's not getting any answers and he is very I don't know if you want to say angry, but he is just in a point of desperation.

Speaker 2: 14:12

Yeah yeah, and he is just expressing that desperation, yeah. So verses 3 through 5, yet you are holy and thrown on the praises of Israel and you are fathers trusted. They trusted and you delivered them To you. They cried and were rescued. So the opening two verses, he's again. I'm assuming David is saying I'm in trouble, I need you and you're not answering my prayers.

Speaker 2: 14:44

And then now, in the next three verses, he's like you answered the prayers of our ancestors. You were there for them. They trusted in you, and whenever they needed you, then you helped them. So he's basically saying why aren't you helping me?

Speaker 1: 15:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:01

I mean.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Why have I heard that you've helped so many others, but yet here I am in desperation and of your need and I can't get the answers that I want.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah, and it's not even that you're answering all these other people Like these are my ancestors, these are my people that you helped Like it's not. Like it's so far, like I'm so far different from them. Right, they're Jews and I'm a Gentile.

Speaker 1: 15:26

No, we're all Jews yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:29

So it's like, why are you not answering? And then we get through. It gets to verses six through eight. But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by mankind and despised by the people. All who see me mock me, they make mouths at me, they wag their heads. So now he's like okay, yes, I need your help. You answered the prayers of our ancestors. But now he's just kind of drifting down this path of self-deprecation. Almost he's like but why would you help me? I'm not even a person, I'm, I'm a worm, I'm. I'm below the earth, I'm not even good enough to to be above ground. And you're going to see that a lot through this song. This, this idea of representation or symbolism. Like he, he uses a lot of language. That again it's kind of self deprecating. But at the same time he's not saying it directly. He is. He is using different images to get his point across. And this is very much like that, saying that he's a worm and not a man.

Speaker 1: 16:52

Right.

Speaker 2: 16:53

But going on a lot of this language may sound familiar, because he says all who see me mock me. They make mouths at me, and by that he's meaning that they are ridicule, ridiculing him, they are making fun of him, they are Um and, as we see, um in wagging their head at the same general viewpoint. It is a way of showing that they disapprove that they're mocking him. This is all kind of that same same general point, but as we see in verse 8, he trusts in the Lord. Let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him. So they're mocking him and ridiculing him for his faith, for his trust in God. That is the basis of the ridicule and the mockery and everything that they are doing to him Verses 9 through 11.

Speaker 2: 17:54

Yet you are he who took me from the womb. You made me trust you at my mother's breast. On you was I cast from my birth, and from my mother's womb you have been my God. Be not far from me, for trouble is near and there is none to help. So now, like I said before, this kind of takes a lot of different views. He's jumping all over the place. So at the very beginning he was like why have you forsaken me? Why are you not answering my prayers? The next section you answered the prayers of my forefathers and my ancestors before me, but you're not answering mine. And then he's like, oh, but I'm not even a man, I'm nobody, and people are making fun of me for my faith. But now he's going back to his birth, to even before he was born, like since I was an infant, you were my god and you were with me. So again, why are you not helping me? Don't, don't be far from me, help me, I need your help. And he's just trying to view that from even a different point of view, going all the way back to his childhood.

Speaker 2: 19:10

Verses 12 and 13. Many bulls encompass me. Strong bulls of Bashan surround me. They open, wide their mouths at me like a ravening and roaring lion. So there's a lot to these two verses. So the first one is the bulls of Bashan. Bulls were viewed as a very powerful animal.

Speaker 1: 19:32

And rightfully so. I mean they're powerful animals.

Speaker 2: 19:35

Yes, they are.

Speaker 1: 19:35

I don't think that you should worship them, but they are powerful animals.

Speaker 2: 19:39

Yes, but then it brings in the bulls of Bashan.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Okay.

Speaker 2: 19:42

Bashan was an area east of the Sea of Galilee.

Speaker 1: 19:45

Okay.

Speaker 2: 19:46

And they were known for being bountiful, so it was very fertile land and the Bulls over there grew bigger than they did west of the Sea of Galilee bigger than they did west of the Sea of Galilee. So whenever you talk about the bulls of Bashan, it wasn't just the standard bulls that they know of but they were bigger, stronger bulls, like bulls on steroids yeah. And you can see that with I mean we live in farm country.

Speaker 1: 20:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:20

So we know about different breeds, yeah. So if you have like Angus, I know they're very popular but they're really not that big. They're kind of short and stocky, yeah. But you compare that to some of the bigger breeds, I mean you could see how, okay if all they got is Angus and they're used to these little short, stocky foals, and then you get this big, huge, whatever breed, and they're like oh good lord, yeah, it's a big bull.

Speaker 1: 20:53

I've seen bull riding on TV. I've never seen it really live, I don't think. But yeah, there's some monsters out there.

Speaker 2: 20:59

Yeah, so that's why the reference to the Bashan. He's talking about these big, giant bulls, bigger than what they're used to, but then it goes and says they open wide their mouths at me like a ravening and roaring lion. Lions are used quite often, especially in the Old Testament. There's over 130 references to lions in the Old Testament alone, not as many in the New Testament, but it was very popular in the Old Testament and the reason for that is, again, if you put yourself into the position of the readers and the authors of that day, they're kind of they know locally what's there and so everything is based on locally, even though here in the US, if we were writing back in that day, we probably didn't have any lions here, but there in Palestine, in that area, lions were there.

Speaker 2: 21:59

They knew about lions, and lions were considered one of, you know, a very powerful predator, probably the most feared predator that they had in that area at that time. It is typically in reference of enemies and their enemies trying to attack them and kill them, but we see it used not only for just general enemies. The devil and his evil forces mainly the devil himself is considered a roaring lion, but Jesus is also considered a lion.

Speaker 2: 22:46

It's, you know, the lion of Judah. So you're like well, how does that make sense? How can the devil and Jesus both be compared to a lion? It's actually pretty simple once you think about it, because, again, the general reference to a lion is for enemies and devouring your enemies, wanting to devour you. Well, obviously the devil wants to devour us, but Jesus devours his enemies. So to us he's a lamb, but to his enemies he's a lion.

Speaker 2: 23:31

So to the devil, Jesus is a lion, because Jesus is going to devour him in that day, that is, in the future, but that is why they're both referenced as a lion. It's because it's more of they're attacking their enemies, and we are the enemies of the devil, but the devil is the enemy of jesus yep, yep so, um, again, there's just a lot of references to lions, especially in the Old Testament, so 14 and 15.

Speaker 2: 24:08

I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax. It is melted within my breast. My strength is dried up like a pot shirt and my tongue sticks to my jaws. You lay me in the dust of death.

Speaker 2: 24:23

This probably sounds familiar to a lot of you and I'm not going to get into why that sounds familiar to a lot of you right now, because I want to save that for the end. So again, we're just viewing this as if David wrote it and to a lot of us, and for obvious reasons, this sounds like a crucifixion. But David was never crucified. So why would David be explaining a crucifixion like he is being crucified, when he was never crucified? And I think this goes back to kind of what I was saying before is there's a lot of symbolism here. He's not saying I mean, yes, he is kind of explaining what a crucifixion would be like, but he's not saying I was literally crucified. He's just saying I feel like I am being crucified. He is using that symbolism.

Speaker 2: 25:26

We have to remember that David, he did a lot of traveling. He was king and he was at war a lot. He was at war a lot and so he didn't traveling in in these different areas that he went to. It's not that far fetched to believe that he seen crucifixion. It was around in the time of David. Now the Romans were the ones who said, to quote unquote um perfect crucifixion If you can perfect a way of torturing and murdering people.

Speaker 1: 26:07

Yes, I just rolled my eyes on camera.

Speaker 2: 26:12

Yeah, that's. It is what it is. But they're the ones who, the Romans, were the ones who were able to find a way to maximize the torture of it, so that's why they're said to perfect it. But that doesn't mean david didn't see crucifixion. He that doesn't mean he couldn't see, like he just could have seen it at other places. And now he is. And I'm pretty sure that if you would see somebody being crucified, I don't think you would ever forget that, no matter how many years had gone by.

Speaker 2: 26:50

I think that would always be in your memory yep so here, david is in a situation where he's feeling abandoned by god because he's praying and his and his prayers aren't being answered. He has people mocking him, making fun of him, ridiculing him for his faith in God, and he feels far from help and he feels like he's being attacked by his enemies and he just feels like he's being crucified. And so that is what he's explaining here. He's like he's not saying I'm literally being crucified, he's just saying I feel like I'm in a position where I'm being crucified and I'm sure we've all felt like that before Like when you're being attacked for no reason and it seems like you can't get any help. Right, I know you've been in that situation.

Speaker 2: 27:41

I've been in that situation Right.

Speaker 1: 27:42

I know you've been in that situation. I've been in that situation.

Speaker 2: 27:44

You just feel like you're falling apart, yeah, and like you're praying, but there doesn't seem to be any answers.

Speaker 1: 27:49

But you've seen other people's prayers be answered and you, yeah, I mean all of it. You can relate so far to what we've read in Psalms 22. You can relate to all of it.

Speaker 2: 28:00

Yeah very much so.

Speaker 1: 28:02

And I think I mean, I think everybody has been in that spot. You may not realize it until now, putting this all together, but it's just, it's an everyday thing, it can be an everyday thing and every person thing.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Yep and you may not. You may not feel this way often.

Speaker 1: 28:27

And you may not realize you feel that way until you like. Really, I know that I pray. I know that there's answers. There are prayers that don't get answered. I understand the reasoning behind all of it. I understand that not all of them are going to be answered the way that I want them answered. But I never, until sitting here, realized how much I live in Psalms 22. I have been there before but I've never realized it. Interesting.

Speaker 2: 28:54

So, going back to verses 14, 15, it says he is poured out like water. That is just a way of saying he is weak. He's feeling weak, um same with all my. My bones are out of joint, just expressing weakness.

Speaker 1: 29:09

My heart is like wax that is melted within my my breast, like his will is is fading I mean, as, as you're reading this, it's just like my, my body just feels like it's ready to just fall to the floor. Yeah, because I, I can. I can relate to his symbolism and all of this, you can just relate and you just feel like, oh my gosh, I I feel this yeah, and it keeps going because yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:33

Then he talks about his strength is dried up like a pot shirt. A pot shirt is a dried clay pot. So he's saying that his, his strength, it's there, but it's just ready to shatter.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:47

His tongue sticks to his jaws means he lost the ability to speak. There's nothing he can say to help him in a situation and you lay me in the dust of death. It's like I got nothing left but to die. He's not saying he is dead, he's just saying go ahead and lay me in my grave, I'm done. But to die. He's not saying he is dead, he's just saying you know, go ahead and lay me in my grave, I'm done. There's nothing else I can do. It's out of my hands. So that's what all that is is focusing on Verse 16 through 18. For dogs encompass me. A company of evildoers encircle me. They have pierced my hands and feet. I can count on my bones. They stare and glow over me. They divide my garments among them and for my clothing they cast lots. So starting out, dogs.

Speaker 1: 30:36

There's a lot of references of dogs.

Speaker 2: 30:38

Yes, and dogs? They didn't view dogs the same way we do I don't know if we ever discussed this in the past.

Speaker 1: 30:47

I don't remember ever discussing it.

Speaker 2: 30:49

So for some reason it just kind of came back to me that I think maybe we did at one point Maybe, but they don't view dogs the same way we view dogs. You know, for us dogs are household pets. You got two of them, Great companions. A lot of people. Dogs are household pets, you got two of them, Great companions. A lot of people keep dogs in their houses. Back then dogs were despised. They were a sign of just contempt. They were scavengers, they were gross they. You know, for somebody to call you a dog was one of the main insults that they had back then, Like in a lot of the, in a lot of the.

Speaker 1: 31:33

Sounds crazy but, I can. I can see how that could be because you know I'm sure they're just going after everything, like you know, if they're not your pet. Like we, you know we feed and we make sure our dogs have food and water and shelter.

Speaker 2: 31:48

I mean, yeah, but I can see, you know, back in the day you know there's not enough food for us, let alone to have for a pet yeah, and a lot of the references to dogs, um, like, especially when, when god's talking is, um, you're going to die and your body will be left for the dogs and you know stuff along those lines and like, like that would be like the greatest insult for them at that day. So that is just why dogs are mentioned and dogs are also used, especially like here, as a reference to, again, more evil like, yeah, a pack of villains yes, in this case it is a pack of villains, evildoers.

Speaker 2: 32:38

so like he's just saying that he's being surrounded, again, we're going along the same symbolism.

Speaker 1: 32:45

He is broken and felt like he's being attacked.

Speaker 2: 32:49

And he feels like he's being attacked. He's been in circle Like his death is coming. It's near. Unless you answer my prayers, god, I'm done, I'm dead. Um, now here we get more of the the crucifixion type reference. They have pierced my hands and feet. I can count on my bones. They stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and for my clothing they cast thoughts Again. I don't think it's that far fetched thing. David has witnessed a crucifixion and he's seen maybe not even the actual crucifixion but the aftermath of it, and so he kind of knows what that looks like and can only imagine what that would feel like. And now he's just saying that's how I feel now, even though it's not literal because David was never crucified. That's how I feel in my personal life, right.

Speaker 1: 33:43

At that moment Right.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Even though we have no idea what moment in David's life this would have been, but whatever moment it was, that's how he was feeling Now, 19 through 21. But you, o Lord, do not be far off. O you, my help. Come quickly to my aid. Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog, save me from the mouth of the lion. You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen, so again he's going back. He just went through all this.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Right.

Speaker 2: 34:23

Just this is how I feel. This is, you know, just explaining his innermost feelings and, how you know, trying to find ways to explain just what he's going through and now he's going back to oh, but wait well, yeah, and he's, and he's reaching back out to God. He's like help me please.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Wait. Lord you're not far from me I know, you're not, because he doesn't want to feel this way. He wants to be rescued. He doesn't want to feel this way. So he's like I know you're not far away, just hold on a second. I know you're not far away, just hold on a second. I know you're not far away.

Speaker 1: 35:06

I know that you can help me through the dogs and the bulls and the, the, the crucifixion feeling that I, that I feel right now. I know you can do this, I know you're not far away, I just need you to help me. So again, he's going back to that pleading part again. Like please?

Speaker 2: 35:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:18

I've told you how I feel. And like he said, he is told you how I feel and like he said he is um, what was it?

Speaker 2: 35:29

uh, deliver my soul from the sword. Yeah, okay, he's literally there, like the sword is to his throat, like his enemies are ready to end him, and he's just like you're. You're the only hope I have, lord. Yeah, I trust you. My ancestors have trusted you. I trust you. I've trusted you since my birth. All my life I've trusted you, yep, and I still trust you now. Please come help me. But then it gets interesting, because second part of verse 21. So verse 21,. Again, he's saying save me from the mouth of the lion. And I don't know if you've caught this, but the next line is you have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen. The tense changes and that's why I like the ESV. You don't see that Mine?

Speaker 1: 36:21

doesn't say that. Mine says rescue. Rescue me from the mouth of the lions, save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

Speaker 2: 36:27

So mine does not say what yours says and, and it's just a difference in the way they interpret one particular word Um, because the word is technically past tense. So that's why the ESV went with. You have rescued me, you have saved me.

Speaker 1: 36:48

And I'm sure that he has felt that before in all the years.

Speaker 2: 36:52

But that's the thing In this particular case. From this point on, for the rest of the psalm, it's all about praise. Right here in verse 21 his answer, his prayers are answered, so everything flips from this point on. So up to this point it was a lament, like a strong lament and like we talked just a little bit ago about all these different steps that he kind of went through during this, this lament, during this journey, and now right here in verse 21, all of a sudden it's like save me, save me, save me.

Speaker 1: 37:30

You have saved me, and so continue on verse and I see this in in 22, so mine doesn't say that in 21. Mine reads differently, but in 22, as you were talking, I start to read this and I'm like, okay, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Yeah, up to this point it's been a lament. Oh, I've been struggling, I've been suffering, I've been praying. You haven't been answering my prayers, but you answered the prayers, god, since birth. And now I feel like I'm being persecuted and crucified and I just I feel broken and lost and distraught, and again.

Speaker 1: 38:09

we all feel like we've been here before. So it was very exciting to see that first part because we could all relate to this. Like we were talking. You felt this way in your life before, I've felt this way in my life before, but you never realized it until we sat here and we dived into this Psalm 22. So you know the first 21 verses very relatable. So now let's take a look at the next set of verses that we have to see if maybe we can relate to them also.

Speaker 2: 38:36

Yes, so again, verse 21,. Save me from the mouth of the lion. You have rescued me from the mouth of the lion. You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen.

Speaker 1: 38:43

And, like we stated, different versions of the Bible say different things. Mine does not read that way. Mine says rescue me from the mouth of the lions, Save me from the horns of the wild oxen. It is not. It's not stated the same.

Speaker 2: 38:58

Yeah, it doesn't use that past tense.

Speaker 1: 39:00

No.

Speaker 2: 39:00

And a lot of the versions are like yours. The ESV, though, has that past tense, and again it is just a different, different way of translating the same word that is used in the original.

Speaker 1: 39:14

So but as we go on, like I stated in our last episode, I read the first line as Mitchell was talking. Sorry, and I realize it does change. It changes just like any version, so let's get into verse 22.

Speaker 2: 39:29

22 and 23. I will tell of your name to my brothers In the midst of the congregation. I will praise you, you who fear the Lord. Praise him, all you offspring of Jacob, glorify him and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel. So here again, drastic change. It goes from well as me to I will praise you. But notice who he is praising and who he is pointing out, and it is all you offspring of Jacob, all you offspring of Israel. So he is really focusing on the Israelite people, the Jewish people.

Speaker 2: 40:10

So verse 24, for he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted and he has not hidden his face from him but has heard when he cried to him. So now he is talking about himself, saying, yeah, I was in a bad spot. I was praying to God and I was praying, praying, praying. I didn't think he heard me. I was asking why haven't you heard me? Why are you not answering my prayers? We've discussed all this, asking why haven't you heard me? Why are you not answering my prayers? We've discussed all this. But now he's saying God did hear me and basically he was just waiting for his timing to rescue me. So that is, this is kind of his reasoning for his praise is the fact that God did listen.

Speaker 2: 40:58

So verse 25, 26. From you comes my praise in the great congregation. My vows I will perform before those who fear him. The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied. Those who seek him shall praise the Lord. May your hearts live forever. So once we started this whole praise idea, he was focusing on the people of Israel, the Jewish people. But now it is saying the afflicted shall eat and be satisfied. Those who seek him shall praise the Lord. So now it's being expanded a little bit to not just the Jewish people and the Israelites but to anybody who seeks him. So that would include any Gentile who seeks the Lord. But it goes even further Verse 27, 28. All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before you, for kingship belongs to the Lord and he rules over the nations.

Speaker 1: 42:01

So now I went from Israel, to this, to the nations.

Speaker 2: 42:07

So the whole world. But guess what? He doesn't stop there. So now it goes. All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship. Before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, even the one who could not keep himself alive, stopping there. So now it's not all the nations, but everybody who has died, everybody who couldn't keep themselves alive. So everybody who died in the past bows down and worships Jesus, so started off as Israel, all those who worship him, all the nations, all those who have died before him and all those yet unborn, so it's literally everybody who has ever existed, whoever will exist. Does this kind of sound familiar? Because now let's tie it back to Jesus.

Speaker 2: 43:17

Because now let's tie it back to Jesus. And in Matthew, whenever Jesus dies, right before his death, he cries out L-O-I, l-o-i, lamasobactony, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And at that time a lot of people were like, oh wait, wait, he's calling Elijah. Blah, blah, blah. They didn't understand what he was saying and why he was saying it, and there's a lot of debate over what Jesus meant with these words. The people at the time and if you continue reading through a lot of the gospels, they're like trying to find out what Jesus is trying to say Like is he calling Elijah? Is he calling, you know, angels? What's he trying to do here? Because, again, if you look at it from their point of view, this man on this cross who is currently being crucified, that is a man who is said to be the messiah, the son of god, the chosen one, the one who is coming to rescue us, to save us, surely he's not going to die on a cross, right? So something is going to happen.

Speaker 2: 44:35

There's going to be some sort of divine force that comes down and rescues him a miracle and he is going to come off that cross and he's going to be some sort of divine force that comes down and rescues him Don't have a miracle and he is going to come off that cross and he's going to be a conquering king, Because that's what they wanted a conquering king.

Speaker 2: 44:47

And they got a conquering king, but not in the way they thought that he was going to be, not what they expected him to be. And so they're seeing him up there and he says this my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And they're like, oh no, did God abandon him? What's? What does this mean? But I think they're wrapped up in the moment because typically in that day when you wanted to reference, they didn't have books, numbers, book names, title numbers, you know page, chapter, verse type stuff. So whenever they wanted to reference a scroll, because they didn't have books, there were scrolls. Whenever they wanted to reference a scroll that was unnamed, they quoted the first line. And that's how you reference which scroll you're talking about. So it's the scroll. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Speaker 2: 45:48

Well, if they were in a learning setting instead of the setting watching Jesus being crucified they probably would have picked that up, but since they were in that particular situation, it didn't dawn on them right away where. If they were, you know right church setting right unquote yeah at temple and somebody said that, then they're like okay, we're going to go to this rule and they memorized everything so you would have thought that them, him, jesus, saying that a light bulb would have gone off because they were all about memorization, like I've heard that before, wait a second.

Speaker 1: 46:27

I've heard this before. This is from you would have thought that's what would have happened.

Speaker 2: 46:31

Yes, and for some it probably is what happened. It's just that's not what the Bible tells us. It's just that's not what the Bible tells us. So for those who heard this and you know they heard Jesus say my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? It may have triggered oh he's talking about. Again, they don't have the title names or anything.

Speaker 1: 46:56

Yes, they can't say Psalm 22.

Speaker 2: 46:58

But they were like, oh, but that's the first line of the song, the song. And again they have things memorized. They could go back and play that song in their head and actually think about the words and now see Jesus going through what he's going through and putting it together and they're like wait a minute, jesus wasn't saying God, why are you forsaking me? No, he's referring to the song in the song, or Psalm as we call them. It is kind of explaining what Jesus is going through.

Speaker 1: 47:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:39

But it's more than that, because remember, like what we explained, what Psalm 22 is about. This is the met. Why have you forsaken me? When we pray, we feel like we're abandoned, like we can feel like we're abandoned If we're in a hard time going through trials and tribulations and we're asking God for help. But we're having you know, god wants us to continue to walk through this trial so we can become a better person on the other side. But yet we're praying. Why are you not helping me? Why are you not, you know with me? Why are you not answering my prayers and then going through? Like you've answered my prayers in the past, so why are you not answering my prayers now? And I've dedicated my life to you since I was a young child and now I feel like I'm being crucified.

Speaker 2: 48:24

Well, this is the stuff that Jesus is trying to tell the people like, go back, read Psalm 22 that way. That's what we're just discussing now. The way David felt. Given David was the writer again, we're assuming that he is, but he may not be that feeling that's the way Israel felt, but that's not necessarily the point. The point is what's coming after, after he was saved, after the death, after the crucifixion. That is what the point is is the fact that, yes, you may be going through hard times now, you may be going through persecution, may be going through baptism of fire, but in the end, praise God, and not just locally, but expand it out bigger and bigger and bigger and let everybody know about that praise. And that is what Jesus is trying to do, because then it goes a step further.

Speaker 2: 49:28

And no, it's not a direct quote, but in John I believe it was so in John 1930, it says when Jesus had received the sour wine, he said it is finished. And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. So this it is finished. What was the last line of Psalm 22? He has done it. It's not a direct quote, but the fact that Jesus used the opening line of Psalm 22, pretty much verbatim my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? That's okay. Maybe that last line, saying it is finished, is it's kind of the same thing. So he is opening and closing Psalm 22 saying that, hey, this Psalm, psalm 22, saying that, hey, this Psalm. This is kind of what it's about, you know. But that takes us down. Another little rabbit hole Is was it a prophecy? Was Psalm 22 prophecy? I don't think so, and here's my thinking.

Speaker 2: 50:37

If David is the one who wrote it, david was not known to be a prophet. David was a king. He was a conquering king who did a lot of war, a lot of fighting, but he was a very good king, yeah, a king who was after God's heart. And he was known for other things that were not so great, but he is still considered one of the greatest kings, at least for the Israelite people. But he was not known to be a prophet.

Speaker 2: 51:14

I think this psalm is exactly what I explained it to be A lament, a story of a man who was going through a very, very hard time, who felt broken and shattered, like he had no power and he was surrounded by his enemies. But the Lord brought him out of that and he vowed to proclaim God to not only Israel, but all the way out to the whole world, to not only Israel, but all the way out to the whole world. So, even though this wasn't, I don't consider this a prophecy. Who's to say God couldn't use it as a way of saying, yeah, you know that thing, that song that David wrote way back when. I'm going to make things happen in a certain way now when it comes to jesus dying on the cross, like the dividing up of the garments and casting lots for the garments and and some of these other little details that wouldn't be much for god to be like.

Speaker 1: 52:15

Let's just make that, let's just tweak it so that matches that yeah and because the people would know that, yes, that story, the the people would know this psalms 22. They would know it and they would be able to reference it yeah, so after the fact, yes, again, there's a lot going on, so they're not. They're not seeing it at this point, but after the fact, and then they can say all praise.

Speaker 2: 52:39

Yes, so that's what I kind of think it is. I think God just used that Psalm to because there's other prophecies about the death of Jesus. You know, you got Isaiah, ezekiel, you got these other actual prophets, who are known to be prophets, who are talking about this stuff Right known to be prophets who are talking about this stuff?

Speaker 1: 52:58

Right.

Speaker 2: 53:00

I don't think we should give David the title of prophet just because of this one psalm. I think God just used the psalm as a way or something to reference back to because of what the psalm is telling us and the way the psalm is laid out. But that's my opinion. Um, I can't say that. I've seen a lot of scholars saying the exact same thing. Um, but that's just kind of what I got from it. But that's just kind of what I got from it. What's your thoughts?

Speaker 1: 53:43

Well, at first I was thinking prophecy, but then, after I thought about it we've already discussed this, we've all been through something like this. We all have a story that we can tell, probably, that you feel the same way. I'm not a prophet, you're not a prophet, but we've all been there and I think God was using that, knowing that there's been so many people who have felt the same way, and he's using that, like you said, to symbolize the crucifixion. Yeah, I really do Believe me.

Speaker 1: 54:13

At first I was like, oh, prophecy, because we've talked about so many different prophecies and how. You know, there's so many things that relate in the Bible that I've never seen before. You know, and to take a deep dive into it, you see all of this. So I was like, oh my gosh, I knew way back in Psalms, but it's like I think he's just using that. All of us can feel the same way Jesus said at that time, and we all can still give praise after, after our quote, unquote crucifixion, or our, our, you know, our storm, you know we can still give praise through all of it.

Speaker 1: 54:48

So just all the references, like you know the, the, the villains and the dogs and the. You know the bulls and all that I mean. There's so much symbolism in it and after you take a dive into it you really can see it in a different light.

Speaker 2: 55:02

Yeah, yeah, because that's the other thing is, with a prophecy, you're saying this will happen, this is going to happen.

Speaker 1: 55:12

And you wait for it, and you wait for it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:13

But the way this is written, it's like no, this is my bones, they're dividing up my garments. So this is, it's my bones that you know they're dividing up my garments. So this is more inward, where prophecy is this will happen, yeah, so that's the other reason why I don't think it's prophecy, because just the way it's worded I think this is a a personal lament that david, given he was the one that wrote it, or given him credit he was just in a position where he felt broken.

Speaker 1: 55:50

Right and he was able to glorify God after he felt the answered prayer. And God I mean, obviously it's here and again. I think that, like you said, I think that God took that story, knowing that everybody had heard this before and knew this and had felt this before. And that everyone could relate.

Speaker 2: 56:12

And that's something else is it's not bad to pray like that? I mean in our own prayer life. If you are feeling distraught and broken, tell God about it. Don't hold back. David wrote about this kind of stuff. There's other places in the Bible that this type of lament is written. Let it go, tell God everything. Just pour out your heart, whatever it is, and even if you don't have words for it, you don't need the words for it.

Speaker 1: 56:45

No.

Speaker 2: 56:45

It literally tells us in Scripture that you don't need the words. God knows what you're trying to pray.

Speaker 1: 56:53

Right, but until you come to him with it.

Speaker 2: 56:55

Yes.

Speaker 1: 56:56

He doesn't realize. I mean, he knows that, you know. Yes, he doesn't realize, I mean he knows that you know, but until you, come to him, whether with the words or just a deep connection about it.

Speaker 1: 57:09

It's going to be before you get that answer, before you get the you know, to get what you're looking for out of it. And you might think it's silly, like some things, it's like. You might think it's silly, like some things, it's like, you might think it's silly and be like you know, I just think this is the way it's supposed to be. I think this is just the way it's supposed to be. But until you have that, you know what? I'm just going to pray about it and just see what the answer is, and you see that you can see it in a whole different light than that. That's not the way it was supposed to be, but until you came to God, you didn't get the answer that he wanted you to see.

Speaker 2: 57:43

So well, I think that's a good spot to wrap it up. Yeah, I think we we pretty much covered everything I wanted to cover. I may actually just go ahead and make this one episode.

Speaker 1: 57:53

That's totally up to you. I know we had some cutouts and what have you. Yeah, you know we got some bloopers, bloopers. I don't make mistakes, didn't say you made mistakes. I said we have bloopers, so, but no, we thank you for joining us again and we were glad that we were able to come with you with the Psalms 2022 and do a deep dive into it. Even though it was a quick, deep dive, there was so much information in it.

Speaker 2: 58:20

So we hope that there was things I could have went deeper onto, but I think this is kind of like the new format I don't want to get too deep, yeah, because then I'll think I start to lose people.

Speaker 1: 58:31

I think you're right, but I think if you can do the message that you're given in a way that we can relate to, it's a lot different. It makes it exciting, it does so I hope that you're feeling the same way. I hope that this message that we brought to you that you can relate and you can see the goodness in all of it. We appreciate you being here with us and we look forward to seeing you next time.

Speaker 2: 58:59

Have a great day everybody.