Speaker 1: 0:06

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Pure Faith Podcast, a podcast where we discuss all things Bible. I'm Michelle.

Speaker 2: 0:13

Are you sure I still can't do it, are you?

Speaker 1: 0:14

sure I'm Michelle. This is Mitchell, and we're here to provide some words of knowledge. Maybe, Maybe, maybe, uh, a discussion, um, about, um, you know, whatever the Lord gives us, stuff just stuff, just stuff. So we thank you for joining us and, um, we look forward to whatever today has in store for us.

Speaker 2: 0:42

We don't even know, I know.

Speaker 1: 0:43

I was just going to say we have no idea what today is going to bring. We literally just fly by the seat of our pants Pretty much. I mean, I did get up this morning thinking, mind you, I've been looking at the scripture that Mitchell gave us and that came to him. So I was like, okay, I'm going to look at this. I looked at it a couple of times and I couldn't stay focused on it. I was doing something else in the Bible the last couple of weeks. So I got up this morning and I was like I got to really stay, I got to get focused on this so I can actually be a part of this Bible discussion. Yeah, it's just really hard to do like in the morning.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Morning is supposed to be the time that you're the most focused.

Speaker 1: 1:20

It is, but it's the hardest time for me to actually get going. So I've got two dogs and, mind you, one is old. I'm telling you, old is dirt. And then we have Wyatt, and Wyatt alerts me for everything and he continuously just takes his two front paws and is either putting on my leg, putting on my chair because he's alerting me of something. In the morning I'm like we have done everything we're supposed to do this morning. There is nothing else that we need to do. We have done everything. So it's just, it's hard to stay focused when I it's like I mean having like a baby that cries at ease, or baby you know their diaper change or needs to be fed. It's like you know you're, you're distracted by everything that that the baby needs. I mean, the puppy is just like that. I thought it was over these days. So yeah, so this morning I didn't get much done. I did look at the scripture, but that was about it.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Well, that's fun.

Speaker 1: 2:16

But you said you did your notes this morning. Hey, I mean, let's be realistic here. It is fly by the seat of our pants. Scripture study.

Speaker 2: 2:29

So the scripture that we are going to be studying today is Isaiah 52, 13 through 53, 12. Yes, but honestly, we probably won't even get into that actual scripture today.

Speaker 1: 2:42

So you sent me that scripture. Yes.

Speaker 2: 2:45

To scripture.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yes, to study, yes, and we may not even get to that.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Yeah, because there's a lot of ground work that needs to be laid leading into that scripture.

Speaker 1: 2:59

Leading into it, okay.

Speaker 2: 3:01

So today is probably more about the history of israel. Um, about, um isaiah, his writing style okay, um, yeah because, it's just different stuff along those lines. Okay, leading up to this, because there are certain things that isaiah highlights or talks about in that particular passage that is referenced earlier in his writing. Okay, um, and some of this stuff has to do with just the general history. Um, mainly about the exile, the different times israel is exiled and because this is all old testament this is old testament and, and can you tell me, is Isaiah the book from Isaiah?

Speaker 1: 3:45

is it the largest book?

Speaker 2: 3:47

Well, Psalms is technically the largest. I wonder, because I he is one of the most prolific writers of the prophets.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Okay, because Isaiah, because he is considered one of the major prophets. His writings are longer in passages also, so we say Psalms is probably the longest but, they are like shorter writings probably.

Speaker 1: 4:09

Like I look at Isaiah and I'm just like you go from okay. So what I've been doing for Lent is I've been doing a, I've been doing the Book of John. I started from some. I had heard that if you want to start with the Bible because I've not read the whole Bible, I've not done it. I know you have, I know you've listened to a Bible in a year. I cannot listen to it. I can't find the voice that keeps me intrigued while listening to it.

Speaker 1: 4:34

So I had heard that if you want to start somewhere, you never start with Genesis. Everybody knows Genesis, but it's like you don't start from the beginning of the Bible in order to read the whole Bible is kind of what I'm, what I'm getting. So they said, start with John. And I did, and how great that was. Like I got through John and I understood John and everything was familiar to me because everything we learn I mean it's everything that we talk about in church, we talk about in Bible study. It's what we talk about conversation about Jesus and about everything. So I got done with John and I started Luke, because I'm like we've done Matthew. If you don't know, we've done Matthew.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Well, the first couple of chapters, and so I'm like I'm not going to Matthew, I'm like let me go to Luke next. So I did, I started Luke, so for me to jump from that and then come to Isaiah, like the reading of the Gospels is so much more fluent. And then you go to Isaiah and you're like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 5:36

And we'll discuss why Isaiah is. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 5:40

Oh, thank you, Because it's really hard. But if I have an understanding of how he's writing and his mindset, maybe it'll be so much easier for me to read. Yeah, because I read that passage, this passage that we're doing, not today, but when we get to it. I read it multiple times and it makes sense. It's just how it's broken. How it's written is different.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Yeah, yeah, so are we ready to get into it?

Speaker 1: 6:05

I'm ready to get into it, unless you want to talk about our lives. I know people are very interested in our lives, but our lives are not that interesting.

Speaker 2: 6:11

They're not.

Speaker 1: 6:12

Not right now. I can tell you that it's the month of April. The month of April is, oh what.

Speaker 2: 6:17

I can tell you what Zeke did yesterday.

Speaker 1: 6:28

Oh well, let's hear what Zeke day uh. So page calls me. You know we work the same place. We're working for a bit believe me, not for the same thing because I sent you a message and he's like. He sent page a text message like don't they work at the same place?

Speaker 2: 6:35

I'm like yeah, we work for the same company but we're not in the same building, right, and I'm busy here, she's busy there, so I would have to stop work to go talk to her. We call each other, text each other, um, but she calls me and I answer. I'm like yeah, and she's like the school just called me, like oh no, and zeke had plans to that evening, which was last evening, to do stuff, which they fell through, but he had plans to go do stuff. I'm like, oh no, zeke's sick, he won't be able to go do his stuff tonight. And she's like they just wanted to make me aware that he had an accident on the playground.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Like okay, obviously it's not serious, because they'd be like hey, I'm going to the school to get Zeke, no, so they just called to make us aware and apparently he was running and I got the story later from Zeke. Zeke likes to play cops and robbers with the girls, the boys against the girls, and the boys are normally the cops, the girls are the robbers. The boys are chasing the girls. Friday is opposite day, so the girls chase the boys. Oh my, and so.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Oh my.

Speaker 2: 8:02

He was getting chased by a girl and turned to run and ran into the jungle gym. So it's, it wasn't too bad, but he's. I'm curious how it's going to look today. But yeah, he's going to have at least a bruise under his eye, if not a guy turn, went full blown like he was not letting her get him.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:26

So they were just calling us to make us aware that this happened at school. He's going to have a black guy. He wasn't. He didn't have any headaches, he wasn't dizzy, he wasn't like they don't think he got concussed, he just he's going to have a black guy, all because he's running from girls.

Speaker 1: 8:45

Oh, at least he's running from them Well on Fridays.

Speaker 2: 8:49

On Fridays, monday through Thursday, he's chasing them.

Speaker 1: 8:51

He's chasing girls. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 8:54

And it's funny because if we do anything with school, like basketball or all these girls would come up and say hi to Zeke. Oh, but it's like whatever.

Speaker 1: 9:07

No, you know he's, he is cute Cause he has no teeth.

Speaker 2: 9:11

He's got one left, one baby, one baby tooth left.

Speaker 1: 9:14

He has like no teeth. He's so funny. I said do you want an apple? He said no, I can't eat it. Yeah, eat it. He says yeah, you probably can't eat that apple, Can you? I said I can cut it off. No, I can't eat it. Okay, that's fine. He has no teeth, so so funny, All right.

Speaker 2: 9:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Well, that was our story for the day. We all got our chuckle. I love these boys. They're coming to our house later tonight with paint shirts.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Yes, okay, I already told Paige. They need paint shirts.

Speaker 1: 9:46

Do the boys know they need paint shirts?

Speaker 2: 9:48

I don't think so.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Okay, they already know that I told them the next time they come they're painting. So if they remember, if Zeke remembers, then he'll know exactly why he needs a paint shirt.

Speaker 2: 9:58

So I didn't tell Zeke.

Speaker 1: 10:00

You did, I you did.

Speaker 2: 10:02

I think I told Zeke.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Okay, Because he knows that he's painting today or he's painting the next time he comes to my house. So fun time.

Speaker 2: 10:11

And you know they have like special paint shirts, right.

Speaker 1: 10:13

No, I'm hoping that they do.

Speaker 2: 10:14

They do.

Speaker 1: 10:15

Good, because I feel like when they come over and they get into the well, we had a couple painting sessions that was not like we're going to have today and they get paint on their shirts and stuff and I'm just like I don't think Paige is really going to care or it'll come out so we'll see but I'm just glad they have paint shirts, they have paint brushes.

Speaker 2: 10:36

They have paint everything.

Speaker 1: 10:38

Oh boy, Am I going to bring it all.

Speaker 2: 10:40

Yeah, how much do you want us to actually bring?

Speaker 1: 10:43

I'll just bring it all. Yeah, how much do you want us to actually bring? I'll just bring it all. I got to put a sheet on my island, so that way I don't get paint on everything. So, oh boy, it's going to be interesting.

Speaker 2: 10:54

Well, that's good.

Speaker 1: 10:55

Yeah, can you see that I can now? All right, so we are getting in. Well, we are going to be focusing on Isaiah 52, 12, 52, 13 to 53, 12.

Speaker 2: 11:16

It's, that's crazy 52, 13 to 53, 12. Yeah, no, I kind of like it because it helped me remember it 52, 13 to 53, 12.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Oh, yeah, maybe, Anyway, so I'm getting into this. Yes, like I kind of mentioned before, we need to kind of set up the whole scenario, Because in order to understand what Isaiah is saying here is just like we always have to do we have to look at it in context. The way we understand it in context is look at what's happening before, what's happening after context. Let's look at what's happening before, what's happening after, just to kind of get an idea of what is actually being said, who it's being said to and the meaning behind it.

Speaker 1: 11:52

Yeah, which is good, because that's what I need.

Speaker 2: 11:55

Which is good, but this one is a little more complicated, of course it is yeah, so we'll get into that and kind of discuss that. So first let's just start with the book of Isaiah, the very beginning, how it all starts and Isaiah's prophecy starts, or his prophetic mission, his ministry. It starts early in the book of Isaiah. He is, he has a vision and he is taken up to heaven and he is before God and there's angels there and he realizes where he's at and he's like oh no, I'm dead, I don't belong here, I'm done. And they bring over and they purify him with a hot, cool, cool, as in C O A O.

Speaker 1: 12:46

Okay.

Speaker 2: 12:47

Um, and they uh, basically purify him of his sins and says you are clean. And then God asked for somebody who he can send down to give this message. And Isaiah is like here I am, lord, send me. And God says okay, and so that's how his ministry begins and right off the bat he comes back from this vision.

Speaker 2: 13:20

His first prophecy is about judgment and the upcoming exile, and it's all based on the fact that Israel, at this point in time, there's idolatry, there's injustice, there's just a lot of bad stuff. I mean they are not walking in the ways of the Lord. I mean they are not walking in the ways of the Lord, but something. This is where already, we need to start deviating from Isaiah, because one thing to note about Isaiah is the first 39 chapters. I think it's 39 chapters are more of a narrative, just kind of giving history.

Speaker 2: 14:10

But the way he writes is he'll say he'll give a judgment or a prophecy about judgment or exile, but then he mixes in a prophecy of hope, and a lot of times the hope is has. Obviously, the prophecy has to do with the future, and a lot of his prophecies are messianic in nature, saying that in the end there will be a new Jerusalem. There will be a Savior coming, a Messiah, you know that kind of stuff. Your coming a messiah, you know that kind of stuff. So it's going from from bad to positive. But then he gives the same prophecies over and over.

Speaker 1: 14:52

he just says them in different ways so the people know that isaiah is a is a prophet yes, they are aware.

Speaker 2: 14:58

But even god says in the book of isaiah that god is going to put within the Israelite people a hard heart. So he's like. Even whenever he first had that vision to go down, god told him they're not going to listen to you.

Speaker 1: 15:13

OK.

Speaker 2: 15:14

By the way, but go give them this message, and so that's what Isaiah is doing so. Isaiah realizes that they're not going to listen. But he is given the mission to give this message, these prophetic visions. So the Lord gives him the word to give to the people.

Speaker 1: 15:32

The people are just like forget you.

Speaker 2: 15:36

We're going to keep doing what we're doing Okay. So something we need to understand, because Isaiah doesn't actually talk about this, and this is where we need to start to understand the actual history of Israel and bring that into play, because, at this point in time, israel is two nations. You have the northern kingdom of Israel and then the southern kingdom of Judea.

Speaker 1: 16:02

Okay then, the southern kingdom of.

Speaker 2: 16:03

Judea, okay, and if you remember, this is back, going back to David, after David, but that's where the two kingdoms start to come into play.

Speaker 1: 16:13

What was the first kingdom? Israel was to the north the northern kingdom, and then Judea, and then Judea is the southern kingdom, gotcha, and so the southern kingdom, judea.

Speaker 2: 16:22

that is where the line of David is and where the line of David stays. And then in the north they have their own king and they have their own line. Well, yeah, and generally speaking, in the north they never had any good kings as far as godly kings. They were all corrupt, they all worshipped idols and other gods and they were just not walking in the way of the Lord.

Speaker 1: 16:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 16:55

Where the southern kingdom, in Judea, it was kind of like off and on. So they'd have a, a king that was good and golly walked in the way of the lord um, did everything they were supposed to do, yeah, but then their son would take reign and then he would just let everything just go to crap and start bringing back all the Asher pools and worshiping in high places and worshiping all these idols, but then their son would come back and then he'd take away all that stuff and walk in the way of the Lord again and bring everything back the way it's supposed to be, and then their son would destroy it. Yeah, so it's just back and forth. So because of that reason, judea was in better standing quote unquote with God, where Israel was just nothing but corruption. So because of that, this is what Isaiah starts prophesying about that there will be coming in even names Assyria to come and take you to exile.

Speaker 2: 18:04

So Isaiah was actually in Judea. He was down in the southern kingdom doing his prophesying. That's where the majority of, that's just where he lived, that's where he was doing his work. So he was giving the prophecy of Assyria coming to take Israel into exile, and I don't know how much detail we want to get into. I don't plan on getting into the different kings and getting all that kind of confusion going, but to give a general overview without getting into too many details. So Isaiah gives a prophecy of the exiles and all that other stuff and that happens.

Speaker 2: 18:53

And the year 722, roughly I've seen it arranged, but normally it's right around 722 BC is when Assyria comes and takes Israel, the northern kingdom, into exile. And so they take them into exile and at this time Judea, the southern kingdom you know they were trying to find a way out and Judea, the southern kingdom, you know they were trying to find a way out. Again, without getting into any big details, assyria ends up leaving and they were going to come back later to take Judea into exile. Long story short, that never actually happened. Judea was never taken into exile by Assyria.

Speaker 1: 19:50

And there was God intervened on a lot of that to protect Judea. Can you explain to me real quick what exile means?

Speaker 2: 19:54

Exile is whenever, basically Assyria, which is an empire like a world empire, at that time they were coming in and basically taking the people off the slavery. They were collecting all the people, anybody who was able. It wasn't 100%. That's why God always says, like I leave a remnant. A remnant is the group that is left behind, um, but they're taking any able-bodied people. They will take them up and march them back to their homeland.

Speaker 1: 20:31

Okay.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Um, to slavery, uh, different empires, not necessarily captivity, but it would be kind of like just working for the empire. It's a form of slavery. It's not the type of slavery that we typically think of, as far as I don't even know who it was who enslaved the African American people, brought them over and basically this idea that we have in America of slavery. It's not that kind of slavery, okay, okay. Um, it's more of like indentured servant type thing, Like you have your freedom but you're working for us.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 2: 21:18

So and that's kind of the way slavery worked in Judea itself you could sell yourself into slavery, like if you had a big debt and you couldn't pay for it. You could go work for somebody else and basically fall under them. They'll pay your debt in exchange for you working for them.

Speaker 1: 21:36

Okay. But at the end of a certain period of time you get released so it's like a slavery slash servant, like, yeah, you know that it's your debt to be paid, because they paid, your debt is to serve them. Until that is paid off, yes, and then you go back to gotcha.

Speaker 2: 21:54

Okay um, and so it's. It's. But each empire was different. They had a different idea, they had a different plan, and for Assyria, their plan or their scheme was okay, we're going to go take over this land, we're going to take the people out of that land and then spread them out amongst all the rest of the people that we have already conquered.

Speaker 2: 22:21

So they kind of intermingle and then they start, you know, getting married to each other and and basically really diversify the bloodlines so that everybody's one people and instead of okay, you're here, you're there, you're there, and just everybody gets mixed together. Okay, that's how they tried to create the assyrian um empire. Uh, babylon, which we'll get into, but since we're talking about this, we'll talk about babylon.

Speaker 2: 22:54

Babylon's theory or method was okay, they want to go into this area and think of the book of Daniel, which is the book of Daniel is is the beginning exile for that Judean um country or for the Southern part of the country. So for that they will take the most kind of like the best of the best and take them back and bring them back to the central location of Babylon, to their main city, and then there they will basically incorporate them into the Babylon kingdom. So that's where you have, you know, daniel, you have Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, and they were working for the king of Babylon, for Nebuchadnezzar. They were part of the royal whatever you want to call it, committee or whatever you want to call it, because that's the way Babylon did it.

Speaker 1: 23:55

They wanted the best of the best.

Speaker 2: 23:56

They brought the best of the best. They brought the best of the best. And at that point, once they get those people incorporated into the Babylon Empire, then it's like well, they're not really going to rebel because now they are a part of us, like so, that's the way they did it.

Speaker 2: 24:18

And then, after Babylon, we have Persia, the Persian Empire was like no, we'll just let the people go back to their own homeland and you know we can rule from here but let them have what is theirs. Don't take what is theirs away from them. They will be more loyal to us if they can have their own stuff, their own land, their all that.

Speaker 2: 24:45

And then you have the romans, which a lot of people know how the romans ruled. So, um, I won't go too much into that, but so yeah, different empires had different methods, different theologies on how that worked. So yeah, basically, exile is just taking people out of their homeland and just putting them somewhere else, forcing them to go somewhere else.

Speaker 1: 25:13

Okay.

Speaker 2: 25:13

And then putting other people. Typically they would put other people in place of those that they took out. Okay, typically they would put other people in place of those that they took out. Okay, so this also comes into play whenever you talk about like Jesus with the woman at the well. Yeah, the woman at the well is a Samaritan.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 25:32

Who are the Samaritans? Well, those were the people from whenever they took the Israelites out of the northern kingdom.

Speaker 2: 25:40

Mm-hmm they brought in other nations and, like I said, just like the people that are taken out, they're bringing people in and now you're getting a mixing of the jewish and others, and for them it was, uh, samaria that they brought in. And so now you have these jewish northern, these Jewish northern Israelites now commingling and intermarrying with these Samaritans, and so you have this mashup of different religions and different faiths and different cultures. And well, whenever the Israelites all return, they still had this mashup there. I mean, say, you get married to somebody even though they're a different religion, you're not going to divorce them just because you know. So they still had this going on, and that is why the Jewish people they thought themselves pure and they were still pure jewish people. They weren't intermingling or intermarrying. So they looked down on those that did intermarry and everything else, and that's where you get this big, big rub against the samaritan people gotcha, um, okay, so that was a big tangent.

Speaker 2: 27:02

So getting back to what we were originally talking about, so yes, assyria came in and took the northern kingdom into exile, so again, they just took them out of their homeland, but there was still a remnant there, and then that was around 722 BC, right, I think. If I remember correctly Isaiah's prophecy, or his ministry started around early 700. Bc Early 700? That's not right. It would be backwards. It was like 20 years prior to the exile, so it would be like 680. Oh, wrong way, like 680-something BC.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Okay, if it was 20 years prior, then that would be 700. So we're at 722. Oh wait, we have to go the other way. I see what you're saying so yeah, this is where it confuses me, this BC stuff. So no, it would be like 740-something, 740.

Speaker 2: 28:06

740-something. It was like 20 years prior to.

Speaker 1: 28:08

this is when I had to think about that, but I'm like what are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, it's before Christ.

Speaker 2: 28:14

I always get confused with the Old testament timeline before christ, but anyways, roughly 20 years before this assyrian exile is when isaiah started his ministry. Um, so yes, so northern kingdom taken into exile 722, roughly 20 years before that is when is Isaiah started his ministry, prophesying that Assyria was going to come and take them into exile. But then Isaiah also prophesied about the fact that Babylon would be coming after Assyria and taking the southern kingdom into exile. And this does happen, but Babylon doesn't come to take Judea into exile until roughly 586 BC. So that's a long time, from 722 to 586.

Speaker 1: 29:21

Mm-hmm. So, so how does he know?

Speaker 2: 29:26

I mean that's the question, right. But the thing is and this is significant just for the simple fact that whenever we get into our chosen section the Isaiah 52, 13 through 53, 12, this prophecy is giving after the return from exile, from Babylon, which that happens in 538-ish BC, so basically from 722 is. Well, that's when? Basically, yeah, so you have almost 200 years close.

Speaker 2: 30:12

I mean just shy of it from the time Isaiah starts his ministry to, and it starts giving the prophecy like hey, you're going to be taken into exile. This is when all this stuff is happening to now, in our chosen passage them returning from exile, but it's still Isaiah talking, yeah. So this is where it kind of gets confusing. But you have to remember this is all prophecy. These are all words that God gave Isaiah.

Speaker 1: 30:46

Okay.

Speaker 2: 30:49

So there are two different camps um about how this kind of works, cause obviously, like we know, when Isaiah died and it was well before the return from exile from Babylon, I mean, he lived in normal life, a normal lifespan.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Okay.

Speaker 2: 31:07

So he did not live 200 years. But as you read in our chosen passage, which we'll probably read in our next episode, it is like Isaiah is talking to the people as they are returning. So there's two main beliefs of this. Either Isaiah like, wrote this down and sealed it and gave it to, let's say, his disciples.

Speaker 1: 31:37

Okay.

Speaker 2: 31:38

Would then carry it down and basically say hey, whenever Israel returns from exile, open this up and read it to the people.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Okay.

Speaker 2: 31:48

Or he could have just wrote it and remember it would have been in the book or in the scroll.

Speaker 1: 31:55

In the scroll.

Speaker 2: 31:56

And.

Speaker 1: 31:57

And they knew what was in the scroll.

Speaker 2: 31:59

So when it happened, Then they were like oh, this is what he was talking uh-huh yeah but leading up to that it's like this this doesn't make any sense or whatever. Um, and this is a good place to throw in the fact that another reason why isaiah is kind of hard to understand is at least the second part of isaiah's book or scroll is poetry. So he's giving these prophecies in a poetic form, so that kind of makes it.

Speaker 1: 32:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:33

It's a little bit harder to understand. It's not like the normal stuff that we're used to reading.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Right.

Speaker 2: 32:38

So there's some imagery, there's some other stuff going on in there, and that's kind of what makes it hard. That's why, whenever you're reading, it's probably like this.

Speaker 1: 32:47

What is going?

Speaker 2: 32:47

on here. Well, it's because it's poetry. And even though it is poetry, that doesn't mean it's fake or it's true, it's accurate.

Speaker 1: 33:00

It's just written in a different way, a different, a different, um. You know well, of course, the different writing style, but a different like view of it.

Speaker 2: 33:09

And remember, like I said before, the way Isaiah wrote um. He would give the same prophecy but he would do it using different words, using um words that are synonyms, instead of the same word over and over, and just reword things. So it has the same overall meaning, but it just flows different and it just sounds different. Now, when we get to our chosen passage, there's nowhere else in Isaiah that he is talking about these specific, specific things, especially what's happening in chapter 53 yeah right.

Speaker 2: 33:46

This is very specific to one certain event exactly um, but there are other things in isaiah that are leading up to it, even though it's not exactly the same. One of the things that we see, and another thing that is debated quite a bit, is the suffering servant. Once we get into our passage, we'll see that it is talking about the suffering servant. For us today, when we talk about suffering servant, our minds typically automatically go to Jesus because he is known to us as the suffering servant. But there's debate about in Isaiah there is multiple suffering servants, first being Israel as a whole being the suffering servant for God, and then it kind of getting reduced down to the exiled Israelites. I mean, I've seen it both ways. There's also people out there that just think Jesus is the suffering servant throughout the whole thing and it's just in different forms or different levels. I can see it both ways, I can see it both ways too.

Speaker 1: 34:59

I mean I can after thinking about the passage, but really, once you continue to go on and read on, then you know. You obviously see that it's it's more for Jesus. I just set a timer because I didn't know if we what we were doing. So I know that what we've been talking about here before intro. So yeah. I can see it both ways.

Speaker 2: 35:24

So I can see it both ways. So something else that we kind of need to understand leading into our passage is yes, we've talked about how Isaiah prophesied about Assyria.

Speaker 1: 35:37

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 35:39

And then, following Assyria, is Babylon, mm-hmm. He even goes on to prophesy about the fall of Babylon.

Speaker 1: 35:44

Okay.

Speaker 2: 35:45

Which again that happens. Probably around 600 ish, I don't know exactly. I'm just guessing there. Um, but it was obviously after. Um they were taken into it. The Judeo was taken into exile, which would have been 586. And then they were returned um from again. I went the wrong way.

Speaker 1: 36:11

You did.

Speaker 2: 36:12

They returned from Babylon. At that point, persia takes over Babylon, their return, persia allows them to return to Israel in 538. So it would have been around like 550 bc is when um, yeah babylon goes back to whenever the fall of babylon somewhere in there, it would take 10, 15 years, I don't know. Um, I didn't look that up, but so, yes, isaiah prophesies about the fall of Babylon as well. But something interesting in the book of Isaiah is Isaiah talks about a tree stop.

Speaker 1: 36:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 36:54

And how Israel is like a tree and that tree will be chopped down. That tree is chopped down According to Isaiah's prophecy and the way he sets things up the tree is chopped down by Assyria Whenever they first take the northern kingdom into exile. Basically, he chops down the tree and takes the top of the tree off. Okay, it's gone, so now you just have the tree stump. Mm-hmm. In a way you could look at that as in that tree stump is the southern kingdom, which is Judea, which is still there. But then he goes on to talk about how the stump will be scorched. And that is represented by the fact that Babylon, whenever they came and took Judea into exile, they burned the temple down, destroyed the temple and basically again taking the southern kingdom into exile. But, like I kind of mentioned earlier, there's always a remnant. They don't take every single person.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Okay.

Speaker 2: 38:07

So there's still people left. There's still people left in the Northern Kingdom, there's still people left in the Southern Kingdom, so there's still a remnant left in Israel. So there's still a stump there, but that stump is now scorched. And then Isaiah talks about how, out of this burnt stump, there will be planted a holy seed, and that holy seed will sprout. And I want to leave it there, because this is something that's and I don't know if you remember it from reading, if you were able to focus on that, but there is a mention of a sprout.

Speaker 1: 38:44

There is a root.

Speaker 2: 38:45

Yes, yeah, and so that's why I mentioned this prophecy is because of that.

Speaker 1: 38:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 38:56

It will come into play later on. And the other thing, that which I haven't done a whole lot of research into this, but from Isaiah 40 through the rest of Isaiah, there's what's known as four servant songs, and this is the fourth of the servant songs.

Speaker 2: 39:21

I haven't really got too deep into the servant songs okay, the first three yeah, I mean I've, I've done some research into them, but I don't think that is necessarily going to play a big factor into what we're studying. So I just want to mention it just for the fact that. Okay, yes, it is there, but for what we're going to be discussing and how we're going to be discussing this section of Isaiah, it doesn't really have that big of an impact on yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:57

We've talked enough about the history and everything else. I just don't think that's a huge, significant thing, so for the sake of time, we'll skip over that.

Speaker 1: 40:11

Okay.

Speaker 2: 40:13

Hey, I think I'm doing pretty good, you are doing pretty good, so there's a lot of things.

Speaker 1: 40:18

I got a lot of information.

Speaker 2: 40:19

We could have talked about all these things. We talked about and not talked about the scripture passage at all.

Speaker 1: 40:22

I got a lot of information. We could have talked about all these things. We did not talk about the scripture passage at all.

Speaker 2: 40:25

I mentioned it. I've referenced it like three or four times.

Speaker 1: 40:29

But that just gives me more time to look at it to be prepared in the discussion.

Speaker 2: 40:33

I'm getting your mindset right, so whenever you come back and read it to us next week, yes, it's long. Yeah, so whenever you read it, you have a better understanding.

Speaker 1: 40:45

Yes, yes. So for you who are watching today, you know, pop into your Bible, get to Isaiah 53, actually 52, and read that the suffering and glory of the servant, which is going to be 52.13. And read it through 53.14. Is that what it is? Whatever, it's 52.13 to 53.12. Gotcha, okay. So open the Bible or the Bible app. However you're doing it, I have found that my Bible is doing much better for me than the Bible app, just because I like to see the pages. So pop in there, read it. Of course, you'll have to read it multiple times, probably just like me, and still not understand it, and we'll wait for Mitchell's interpretation of it for the next time we're here.

Speaker 2: 41:34

And I do agree about the actual Bible. I know whenever I come here I use electronic stuff.

Speaker 1: 41:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:39

But most of my Bibles are big study Bibles and even before.

Speaker 1: 41:44

Um, you know, before we came back, you know, mitchell printed out his notes and everything for me and you know, I just pretty much just listened along and I just have found that, actually opening my Bible to the passage and reading the words, even though your version is different than my version we've already talked about that, um do have, I do have your version right, right, everybody has a different version that they, that they actually can read what I want to say.

Speaker 1: 42:07

I don't want to say read better, but, you know, can maybe absorb better, like comprehend better, and for me it's niv is better too if you're just reading um, yeah, it flows better.

Speaker 2: 42:20

The ESV I like that better because some of the way it chooses to interpret some of the original Greek and Hebrew, um, it just tends to be a little more accurate. Um, cause it's more of a, a word for word where that's more of a, it's not a thought for thought, but it's the middle of the road.

Speaker 1: 42:39

Right.

Speaker 2: 42:40

Yeah, um, so just for for deep dive studying. I of the road, right? Yeah, so just for for deep dive studying. I like the esv, but whenever we read it, we're going to read out of the niv because it flows a lot better. There's some weird words and oh yeah, and the way things are organized in the esv that it's just going to be a stumbling block. I do plan on studying it out of the ESV, but just our big reading of it will probably be an idea.

Speaker 1: 43:07

Okay, perfect. Well, we hope that you enjoyed this discussion and we look forward to seeing you again next time.

Speaker 2: 43:15

Have a good day, bye.